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Bundle: 556
Archive-Message-Number: 6995
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 15:29:33 CST
From: [-- REDACTED --] (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background

Gentlesophonts:

Wow!  Now that was a response.  I'm pleased to discover so many folks who
are concerned with backround.  Thanks to everyone.  I'll get to specific
points in a moment but first I'd like to let you know where I'm coming
from.

I have been playing RPGs since the early days of D&D, probably since before
some of you were even born!  (Can it really have been that long?)  My first
RPG rules were those first three D&D booklets:

Book 1: "Characters and Com . . . , er, I mean "Men and Magic"
Book 2: "Starshi . . . , oops, it was "Monsters"
Book 3: "Wilderness Adven . . . , yikes, rather "Worlds and Adventures"

And then I bought the supplements as they came out, you know:

"Greyhawk" (or was it "Mercenary"?)
"Blackmoor" (or maybe "High Guard"?)
Etc.

You get the picture.  Then came the revised, full-size rule books for
"MegaDungeons . . . , er, I mean "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons".  And I
just had to buy everything: the three basic books, the "Monster Manual",
the "Deities and Demigods Cyclopedia", etc., etc.  And then came the new
magazine, "The Journal of the . . . , no, it was "Challenge . . . , nope,
I got it, "The Dragon".  Yeah, that's the ticket.

Early on my interest in sci-fi was piqued by my discovery of Traveller.
I bought the original booklets, the supplements, the additional booklets,
the adventures, the *Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society*, the double
adventures, etc., etc.  It was great!  I loved the richly detailed
background of the Imperium.  It had everything: bustling frontiers,
backwaters, decaying cores, alien realms, remote reaches . . . .

And then came that fateful day when the Emperor was assassinated (or was
he?).  MegaTraveller appeared and I was overcome with a sense of *deja vu*.
This had happened before.  Someone was reaching for my wallet again.  I had
a rebellion of my own - the only MegaTraveller item I bought was *The
Rebellion Sourcebook*.  In the words of an old sage, "Fool me once, shame
on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!"  (In the years since then I've come
into possession of second-hand copies of most MegaTraveller items.)

And then it happened again!  The "Rebellion" became "Hard Times" which
`evolved' into "The Next Genera . . . , oops, into "The New Era".  (I seem to keep getting confused - all these RPG and sci-fi terms are so similar.  And
then, would you believe it?, Gary "Tolkein? Never heard of him!" Gygax shows
up at GDW.  But that couldn't have anything to do with all this, could it?)

Anyway, all good things must come to an end I guess.  I abandoned
`Imperial' space altogether and have spent the last couple of years working
on a completely original Traveller campaign.

You may not believe me, but it was not my intention with my post to start a
b**ch session about TNE and to pine away for the `good old days' of CT.  I
don't like what GDW's done, but it's their game and they can do with it as
they please.  I accept that.  (Then again, remember *New* Coke?  :-)  But
now, given that TNE is all that's being supported, I want to know what
there is to recommend TNE as a campaign background.  Several of you have
made some good points toward answering that question.  Let me get to them.

 
Rupert G. Goldie [-- REDACTED --] says:
  
>  Before I finish, how could I comment on TNE without mentioning The
> Virus. I've
> never been quite as violently opposed to The Virus as some members of
> this 
> list ;-), but I have to admit it is _really_ depressing looking at those 
> before and after subsector listings and seeing all those XXX000-0 planets
> that
> used to be thriving societies.

Hmmm, role-playing as "depressing".  Sounds like a post-holocaust game to
me, but "Twilight 2000" in space wouldn't be very original now, would it?
 
 
[-- REDACTED --] (Brent Woods?) says:
   
> To my mind, the
> Virus environment is a giant step backward.  Technology has *regressed*.
> Technology has always been the
> primary focus of my interest in Science Fiction.  The new background
> severely cripples the technology that I have become accustomed to.

Hmmm, more post-holocaust - or `low-tech' sci-fi?  Isn't that a
contradiction?

 
James Kundert [-- REDACTED --] says:

>  The New Era has, thanks to the surviving Regency, more variety than
> the previous eras.

Is this really the case?  Isn't it more accurate to say that TNE has more
variety than previous eras *within the same astrographic region*?  What
does TNE have to offer over the *real* frontiers of previous eras - those
regions beyond the settled areas of the Imperium and the other Major
States?

> It has old, well established civilization.

So did previous eras.
 
> It has
> endless battles against a foe that nobody likes (even that foe's
> relatives).

True, so now there is a *universal bad guy* (like D&D orcs or the Nazis
of Indiana Jones) for `hack-and-slashers' to slaughter at will, but
is this an improvement?  Or is it even really very different?  I remember
some pretty virulent encounters with the `Zho dogs' in the early CT days
before Norris `reprogrammed' the Imperial (Deneb) propaganda machine once
the Rebellion forced him to realize there'd be no Corridor Fleet to pull
his a** out of a Sixth Frontier War.

> It has exploration and reclamation, salvage and new
> construction.

Again, so did previous eras, just not in the `developed' sectors.

> Everywhere you look, there is an exploratory frontier
> (as opposed to a political one, the only kind the previous eras knew).

Not true, see above.  It seems from these points that TNE offers nothing
over the previous backgound except to make the `great unknown' more
`accessible' to `stay at homes' that were unwilling to adventure out of the
settled regions of the Imperium.  What has really happened is merely that,
with TNE, GDW has expanded their *support* for this type of area - only the
way they've chosen to do so has been at the *expense* of the established
areas of the campaign.  ("We had to destroy it to save it.").

What does the TNE background offer over a campaign booklet set in an area
coreward of the Vargr Extents, rimward of the Solomani Sphere, spinward of
the Hierate and Consulate, or trailward of the Hive?  IMHO, other than the
*deus ex machina* of the Virus, not much.  Are there other opinions?

>   One of the biggest complaints about the Rebellion period was that it
> quickly became "the largest spectator event in history".  By comparison,
> Classic Traveller was going nowhere, doing nothing.  An ambitious
> referee could chart his own major events for two reasons: the developed
> parts of the Imperium were its frontiers, not the important stuff
> around Capital; and there were no other major events that had to be
> conformed to.  Every group has its own Imperium from that period.
>   Then came the Rebellion, and MegaTraveller.  Most of us old Classic
> players can remember the cold shiver we got when Traveller's Digest
> #9 hit the stands: "Emperor Strephon Assassinated!"  We knew, even
> then, that "our" Imperium had been taken away from us.  Most of us
> looked on as MT supplements appeared, moving the Rebellion forward
> while leaving us behind.  No more home-cooked "major" events; here
> was the future plotted in detail.

I concur with James here almost completely, but . . .

>   Finally came the news: The New Era.  DGP retreats in disarray. GDW
> takes back Traveller.  There was much rejoicing... But what's this?
> GDW says they're going to finish the job the Rebellion started, and
> tear down the Imperium completely.  70 YEARS?!?  Caused by a COMPUTER
> VIRUS?  Thus we arrive at today.  What is different from MT, you
> ask?  Here we sit while GDW puts on the "Let's Rebuild the
> Imperium" show.
>   Unlikely. At best. Recall, those of you who have the material, that
> the Spinward Marches were settled by the expanding Third Imperium
> in the 300's!  This was during an era of optimistic expansion and
> exploration, with no Virus to slow them down. Three HUNDRED years
> from Capital to Regina.  In this light, I don't think the maps will
> change much, except to get more informative, unless GDW keeps
> the calendar going breakneck.  Lines of communication will open
> within the first 40 or 50 years sufficient to allow the historical
> quotes in the TNE book, but actual sovereign borders will change
> very slowly.  Pocket Empires will boom to a point, then discover that
> quarantine is impossible on an expanding border. The RCES makes no
> bones about expansion, but suffers the same problems of secure
> borders.  The Regency won't advance a single parsec without extensive
> cleansing operations and establishment of new links in the Quarantine
> Line, and will reach the trailing end of Corridor to face the realities
> of a Line that is not just advancing, but expanding as well. All while
> recalling that the Line is held by charisma-happy Vargr in places
> beyond the Regency's control. Enough to give a Regent nightmares.
>   No, the map will not change quickly.  And when it does, there will
> always be areas of the Third Imperium that will not come under the new
> flag for centuries or more. Pick the right spot for your campaign and
> have no interference from GDW, major events or no, for 50-150 years.
> I strongly suspect that the interior of the Regency will be one of
> those areas, barring initial development for the New Era.  Each
> group can have "its own" New Era, knowing (and caring) only that
> the universe gets a little bigger, and a little more Virus-free,
> with each passing year.

A good description of the potential offered by TNE, but not all that
different in effect from that offered by a CT/MT "Core/Rim/Spin/Trailward
Sourcebook".


Tom O'Neill [-- REDACTED --] says:
 
> Concerning the TNE setting, its strengths are its weaknesses. The major
> advantages of TNE over CT/MT are (a) no knowledge of previous history is
> necessary, reducing the amount of reading for new players; (b) apart from
> the Regency, everywhere is a frontier zone ripe for re-exploration and 
> rediscovery;

Again, the same would hold for a `frontier' CT/MT campaign.

> (c) the Virus, although mostly under control, is still an
> ever-present threat and has massively reduced automation, putting
> emphasis back
> on the skills of people.

Hmmm, an interesting point but not one that I've encountered.  I don't
quite see how the background itself would do this (take away or add
emphasis on character skills).  Isn't that more a function of `the rules'
and referee interpretation?  I'd like to hear more on this point.

> The disadvantages are that (a) previous history and 
> technology is changed, to the detriment of continuity for some campaigns;

And a `frontier' sourcebook would have avoided this.

> (b) apart from the Recency, nowhere is really safe as everywhere is a
> frontier
>  zone; (c) the Virus is a flagrant Plot Device

Sort of like all those orc-filled holes in the ground from D&D, isn't it?

> and questions such as 
> whether something as complicated as a starship could be operated by
> manual 
> control with minimal computer assistance are ignored.(I can just see the
> astrogator tapping in the millions of parameters for a jump from one
> computer
> to another by hand without any mistakes(no error-checking, that would be
> too
> dangerous) :-).

Well, this seems to be a rules-oriented point which, not having the TNE
rules, I can't comment on.  It would seem though that sophonts might be
able to effectively compensate for a lack of automation - Herbert's *Dune*
universe comes to mind as a good example.  

> GDW seem eager to encourage a "Merc 2000 in outer
> space" mentality in an attempt to attract new players. They are a
> business and
> want to make a profit, so that is their right. They are also more
> comfortable
> with wargames than with RPG's and wish to stick to their area of
> expertise.
> Anyone who seeks a non-military style of play will probably have to do
> most of
> the work in setting up such a campaign themselves. Still, now we're stuck
> with
> it, and live must go on.

So if I liked Twilight:2000 and wasn't creative enough to move it into
outer space myself I should buy TNE, right?

> "Return from the Dark Ages" campaign could be very interesting, depending
> on
> how it was run.

Yes, it would.  And an "After the Nth Stellar War" sourcebook (remember the
article "Prologue: Adventures in the Imperium's Past" from JTAS?)
would have done the same without condeming the entire Imperium universe to
destruction.  Of course, such a sourcebook wouldn't have kept us coming
back to the game store as easily to find out what was happening next in the
campaign.
 

Lionheart \|/ [-- REDACTED --] says:
 
> Our gaming group consists of two factions. The newbies and those who
> know who Strephon is/was.
> The new era has allowed me to reconcile these groups without
> frustrating the oldies too much. The newbies play HIver techs and
> Thugs etc and the others play Pre-Collapse Revenants.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but a `frontier' sourcebook
would have done the same.

> The old Empire wasn't alive the way TNE is.

How so?  What do you mean, specifically?  I assume you're not talking about
District 268, Trojan Reach, or the Far Frontiers?

> The Imperium
> has a wealth of background and what isnt there can be created by
> those people who are inventive enough.

Yes, except that TNE makes that all obsolete, but to what end?  What do I
get for throwing all that stuff in the trash?

> I was cowed when I played Traveller with other groupos
> though..especially at Conventions. Rules are made ot be broken but
> those old timers who didnt like the new RULES system were also
> determined to give the background a good dig as well. 
> I feel the system is an improvement. Old timers dont have to play it
> and they don't have to play the new background.

Okay, old timers like me are idiots, but what about that makes the TNE
setting an improved campaign background?

> Isn't that nice of
> GDW to give you a choice.

Not much of a choice as I see it.  There's no equivalent to "Classic Coke"
being offered as far as I know.  At least, not yet.  :-)

> You KNEW what is was going to be
> like...from the release of Survival Margin...you knew the system was
> going to be amalgamated with Twilight and dark Conspiracy. 
> You didnt have to buy it.

Yup, I knew it.  And I didn't.  (I guess I could have done what Clayton
Williams, former Texas Republican gubernatorial hopeful, advised when faced
with a particularly abhorrent situation, "If it's inevitable, you might as
well lie back and enjoy it.")


Anthony "K." Baggaley [-- REDACTED --] says (of the Virus):

> What is it?2- depending on peoples point of view, it is also-
>   1) a way to turn Traveller into a 'Dark Future' RPG

You're not suggesting that it's not really Traveller any more at all, are
you?

>   2) a way to release a new Traveller set that didn't need new 
>      players to learn the whole Imperial background (destroying
>      90% of it may have rather overdone the idea)

Another case for the `frontier' sourcebook?
 
> like most
> Traveller players (I suspect) I've stuck with it because of the
> background, not the rules.

Me too.  :-)
 
> As for the merits of various backgrounds, the only 'merit' I can 
> see in TNE is that the 'area of interest' i.e. the area that the
> published background covers, is less 'civilised'. PCs have more of
> a chance to act as bloodthirsty criminals and get away with it, with
> smaller governments or no government in most areas. It has an
> advantage- with all these smaller ponds PCs have more chance to be
> big fish, which should suit some people and could be interesting
> if they use this power for anything other than stealing chickens.
> However, most Arses background I've seen implies they prefer to
> 'shoot people with big guns'- I get the impression it's this that's
> making TNE so popular (not on this mature list of course :>)
>  That you could do all this in CT, just outside of the Imperium,
> means TNE has no real improvement over CT. But, again, it depends
> who you ask...

I guess I'm playing Anthony's tune.  So here's some late breaking news for
all you TNE-devotee's out there.  Have you heard about the latest upcoming
release from GDW for Traveller?  It's a completely new and improved
campaign background called "Dragonlance . . . , er, I mean "Brillant Lances
 . . . , no, wait, it's . . . well, we don't have a name for it yet, but
it's a great improvement over TNE, state-of-the-art in role-playing, etc.,
etc.

You'll get your turn.  Everyone's money's the same color.  And remember,
you heard it here first.  ;-)


And finally, [-- REDACTED --] says:
 
[snip]

Which seems like a good point to move this discussion forward.  So let's talk
about the current background.  I don't have TNE so I'm not all that familiar
with it's setting.  I gather that the `Regency' (same as the RCES?) is what
the Domain of Deneb has become with ruling authority held based upon some
claim to regency for the Third Imperium.  (Was that boy Avery involved?)  The
Hivers seem to have some sort of technological advantage.  (Didn't they help
create the damn Virus in the first place?)  What happend to the other Factions
 - all destroyed by the Virus?  And the major aliens?  So where are campaigns
taking place now?  All in the Regency?  (Gee, adventure and discovery in the
Spinward Marches.  Now isn't that original!)  I guess there are also these
Pocket Empires.  Little subsector-sized remnants of the `autonomous polities'
that managed to survive the Rebellion, Hard Times, and the onslaught of the
Virus?  What do PCs do in TNE?  Lurch around in their jury-rigged starship
*Orcslayer* bashing vampire ships all day?  Do tell!

Thanks again to everyone for your honest participation.  I've enjoyed this.
And please, don't anyone take offense.  My sarcasm is meant all in good fun.
I apologize if I've offended any eyes.  Please let me know directly if you 
have a specific beef with something I've said.  (Yes, even you Mr. Gygax.)

Peace,

David Johnson
<It's my opinion and mine alone.>


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