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2090
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-29-2020
04:02 UT
~
That's Lillian Ransby in "Naudsonce" showing Mark Howell what she's (mostly not) learned about the sounds made by Svants. That visibilizing analyzer is a remarkable machine that takes speech as an input and outputs colored images depicting the frequencies of the sounds. Some cool, speech-activated human-(and other sapient being)-machine interface there.

But it seems to be operated by manual controls. It can deconstruct speech into its component frequencies but it doesn't seem to be able to accept voice commands. The technological capability to do so seems to be there but it's not used in this application. There must be some sort of socio-cultural reason for that.

(I get it that what's really going on is that it never occurred to Beam to put some computer automation into a scientific measurement device like this because the scientific measurement devices of his era didn't have computer automation.)

But here, I think, is a bit of the explanation for why Merlin can only be "spoken to" by specialists and why Conn's modifications to "Oscar" are so surprising to his mom.

Fwoonk,

David
--
"As for the other five, one had been an all-out hell-planet, and the rest had been the sort that get colonized by irreconcilable minority-groups who want to get away from everybody else. The Colonial Office wouldn't even consider any of them." - Mark Howell (H. Beam Piper), "Naudsonce"
~
2089
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-29-2020
03:48 UT


The visibilizing analyzer
2088
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-28-2020
04:24 UT
That's right, I shouldn't have forgotten about the coding part, should I?

I guess that's the difference between reading about something and using it. But, I do have a few unpunched punch cards - they'd used a similar system at work back in the day, they got rid of the old system, but a cellophane-wrapped stack had been missed in a storage cupboard for a couple decades, till the day someone was cleaning it out and asked if I wented it, else they were going in the trash. They make great bookmarks.
2087
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
18:46 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> The "translating" part seems to have been a standard
> feature across a few writers at the time - I know Asimov
> had a few stories about Multivac that involved waiting
> for the mighty computer's output to be translated from
> special codes to english.
>
> It's an artifact of the times, I suppose.

I think it's something like that.

When I first learned to program, in high school, we had a keypunch machine with a typewriter keyboard that produced eighty character punch cards. We'd spend hours typing the punch cards and then they would be bundled up with all the other kids' stacks of cards and sent to the school district office where they were apparently entered into some sort of computer which produced a printed output that came back to our class the following week. Maybe your program worked--doing something miraculous like multiplying three two-digit numbers or determining the area of a rectangle--and maybe it didn't. Maybe it didn't work because there was an error in your programming logic or maybe the logic was fine but you'd mistyped something on one or more of those keypunch cards.

Very quickly, a group of us figured out that we could test our programs on one well-to-do kid's personal computer--a TRS-80 from Radio Shack--and then, once our program was "de-bugged" and working, we'd just take turns typing on the keypunch machine which, if I remember correctly, could produce just ~one~ copy of the most recently-produced card. (That was some memory capacity there!) It worked well until the teacher figured out that a handful of us were consistently getting results back from the district office which had no errors. . . .

This, I think, was a later-day version of what "computer programming" must have seemed like to Beam writing nearly two decades earlier. The solution to the apparent disconnect for contemporary readers is to question the assumption that "coding" would become a skill that would be taught to kids in high school and something that, eventually, "everyone" would need / learn to do. Most of us use our personal computers today, from an input standpoint, just to "write," something that someone in Beam's era might have used a typewriter to do at college before going off to professional employment where there were "secretarial pools" to do the typing.

That fits with a socio-economic model where "all the smart people" have servants, whether they be non-human sophonts or, by the Viking era, robots. (It also mirrors the socio-economic model which prevailed in the New York society culture in which Beam mingled at some points in his writing career.)

So, in the Terro-human Future History, perhaps "programmer" remains a specialized role, like "millwright," and most folks don't know much more about how their computer works than they understand the Abbott lift-and-drive in their aircar. It's only when the "human-machine interface" moves into non-specialized "retail" applications--like Conn's mother's house-cleaning robot--that you begin to have input/output devices that seek to model ordinary human methods of communication.

Yash'm.

David
--
"A girl can punch any kind of a button a man can, and a lot of them know what buttons to punch, and why." - Conn Maxwell (H. Beam Piper), ~Junkyard Planet~
~
2086
David SoobyPerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
04:01 UT
David Johnson wrote:

>> ...it would only make sense for Merin's interface being able to interact with
>> people in Lingua-Terra, not some programmer language. Merlin's designers had all
>> that size to work with; it only makes sense that a part of it would be so a General
>> could just ask his question without needing to involve a programmer/ interpreter.
>
> This is especially troublesome given Conn's efforts to improve the ability of his
> mother's house-cleaning robot to accept voice commands. Perhaps this is a relatively
> new innovation, that Conn learned about while at university but that wasn't
> available to the designers of Merlin working half a century earlier?

The question is just how much, or rather how little, a computer (or a robot's electronic brain) understands the world on a human level.

For the house-cleaning robot that Conn's mother tries to order around as if it's a human maid with a human understanding of the world, to great comedic effect, the answer is "not at all". The house-cleaning robot isn't any "smarter" than a modern Roomba, altho clearly it is equipped and programmed to do more tasks than the Roomba does. But that house-cleaning robot does not actually /understand/ the voice commands it is programmed to respond to, any more than your car actually /understands/ when you say, for example, "increase temperature". That's a voice command that triggers a voice activated system in your car (well, some people's cars) to increase the power to the car's cabin heating system. But does your car understand that there is a human inside it that's too cold, and will be more comfortable if the heater is turned up? Of course not!

Nor does even Merlin, despite its apparent near-omniscience, have a human or near-human understanding of reality. This is made quite explicit. Quoting from the climax (ch. XXI) of THE COSMIC COMPUTER:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It took a long time to set up the new computation. Forty years of history for almost five hundred planets had to be abstracted and summarized and translated from verbal symbols to the electro-mathematical language of computers and fed in. [...]

Then the bell rang, and the tape began coming out.

It took another hour and a half of button-punching; the Braille-like symbols on the tape had to be translated, and even Merlin couldn't do that for itself. Merlin didn't think in human terms.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, it's not that it didn't occur to those who made Merlin to put in a voice interface so that a general officer could give commands directly to Merlin. It's that it simply wasn't possible to communicate with Merlin in that fashion.

I see the same lack of comprehension about the lack of understanding by computers, in current online discussions of semi-self-driving cars.

"Well, a Tesla Model S (or Model 3) can drive down the freeway all by itself; why didn't it see that fire truck stopped in a traffic lane, or see that concrete barrier, that it ran into?"

That's quite similar to the way Conn's mother thought the idiot house-cleaning robot was capable of being ordered around like a maid, just because it could respond to a few pre-programmed voice commands. "Well, if it can understand me when I tell it /this/, why doesn't it understand when I say /that/?"

Just like the robots in the manufacturing plant later in the book, it follows only its pre-programmed, taped instructions. It can't think for itself any more than your Roomba can. The semi-self-driving car is, like the housecleaning robot, capable of more sophisticated responses and actions than the Roomba, but it doesn't /understand/ the world any better than the Roomba does. Which is to say... it doesn't have even the /slightest/ comprehension or understanding of the world as we know it.
Edited 04-26-2020 04:17
2085
David SoobyPerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
02:58 UT
pennausamike said:

> The first part of the story logic that suffers in the face of today's computer and
> internet capability is the TIME it takes Merlin to search all data, and then form a
> (nearly sapient) conclusion. Google searches billions of gigs of data and returns a
> response in tenths of a second, even though the sources of that search are scattered
> all over the globe.

But modern microprocessors have achieved faster and faster processing speeds by extreme miniaturization. In the Piperverse, this hasn't happened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Google also uses a massive distributed network, which is a resource Merlin simply doesn't have access to. The Piperverse is one in which computers are large mainframe machines, each of which needs an entire building to house, and are rather rare. THE COSMIC COMPUTER seems to suggest that computers are /very/ rare; as in the era when IBM estimated there was a market for all of five mainframe computers! By the time of FUZZY SAPIENS, it seems the author was suggesting all large companies would have their own mainframe, which rather contradicts the implications in THE COSMIC COMPUTER. But either way, computers simply aren't a part of everyday life for most people.

Nor can there possibly be a Federation-wide computer "Internet". Aside from starships physically traveling from place to place, the fastest communication in the Piperverse is light-speed. Our modern world uses a worldwide network of computers, the Internet, which transmits messages around the world in a fraction of a second. (In fact, the infamous "satellite relay delay" seen on news shows is caused more by electronics having to repeat and amplify the signal, rather than the actual light-speed delay.) This simply cannot happen across the length and breadth of the Piperverse, where it takes radio messages years to reach the nearest stars!

> The second issue is that after having to frame the questions in some computer
> language, Merlin then spits out an answer that needs deciphered by computer techs.
> Nope, not buying that. Just like modern computer HMI's (Human-Machine Interface) are
> no longer in DOS or some such, I likewise believe it would only make sense for
> Merin's interface being able to interact with people in Lingua-Terra, not some
> programmer language. Merlin's designers had all that size to work with; it only
> makes sense that a part of it would be so a General could just ask his question
> without needing to involve a programmer/ interpreter.

Keep in mind that Piperverse computers exist only as large mainframe devices; desktop and laptop computers don't exist, and neither do smartphones which are handheld computers. There aren't all that many computers on any planet, and there simply isn't sufficient market pressure to develop a human interface that makes it easy for the average person to interact with them. In fact, it may be that manufacturers of computers don't /want/ them to be easy to interact with, without the sort of special training described in THE COSMIC COMPUTER.

The computers used on starships seem to be more like special-use devices, the Piperverse equivalent of specialized microprocessors found in every kitchen appliance today. They are starship electronic control devices which assist with very specific tasks, such as astrogation and navigation, rather than being a general-purpose computer such as Merlin or the business company computer in FUZZY SAPIENS. That may explain why the control room of a starship uses vernier controls rather than the rather elaborate process of entering a question into Merlin and deciphering its answer. The latter is a process requiring highly trained computer specialists, as described at the end of THE COSMIC COMPUTER; the former apparently doesn't require that sort of long-term specialized training.

For story-telling purposes, Piperverse computer techs are the the white lab-coated high priests of their culture, practicing arcane knowledge to wrest near-omniscient knowledge from mysterious oracles. THE COSMIC COMPUTER takes that concept and develops it to the nth degree.

Trying to reconcile that type of culture with our modern culture in which microprocessors and computers are ubiquitous... it's just not going to work. IMHO trying to do so removes some of the charm of Piper's stories. It reminds me of the tag line for the "Space: 1889" game: "Science Fiction Role Playing in a More Civilized Time". :)
2084
David SoobyPerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
02:28 UT
David "Piperfan" Johnson wrote:

> It's difficult to conceive of a spacefaring civilization which hadn't figured out
> how to make integrated circuits, and then learned to make them smaller and smaller
> as has been the case in our actual, non-fictional universe. So what might be
> different?

Simple: The transistor was never invented. In fact, I've argued that Merlin was built using analog circuits, not digital ones. The term "neutrino-circuits" is used in THE COSMIC COMPUTER (ch. II; p. 17 in the Ace 40¢ edition). What if those are analog circuits?

Once you get transistor tech, then there is a real question about why they never miniaturized it to the integrated circuit, and ultimately tiny microprocessors. I think it's easiest to avoid all of that, and say transistors were never invented. That makes it easier to swallow the references to using vernier controls in the starship control room, in SPACE VIKING.

Now, as to WHY transistors were never invented: Is the Piperverse entirely deterministic, like the LENSMAN universe? Can it be that the Heinseberg Uncertainty Principle has little effect on reality, if it exists at all? Can it be that the Piperverse works entirely according to classic physics, and that quantum effects -- such as the tunnel diode effect, which the transistor is based on -- don't exist?

If I were running a Piperverse role-playing game, that's precisely what I would specify. It would make deciding what tech can and can't exist much simpler.
Edited 04-26-2020 04:34
2083
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
01:05 UT
The "translating" part seems to have been a standard feature across a few writers at the time - I know Asimov had a few stories about Multivac that involved waiting for the mighty computer's output to be translated from special codes to english.

It's an artifact of the times, I suppose. I'm assuming that there's a good reason for the size, and I just don't have clearance to read the owner's manual for Merlin. :)
2082
jimmyjoejanglesPerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
01:04 UT
I picture Merlin shooting out a bunch of emojis, not quite a different language but something that might need decoding.
2081
pennausamikePerson was signed in when posted
04-26-2020
00:24 UT
Merlin could have been cooled by deep caves, which here on Earth-That-Was average 56 degrees. Big heat sinks with some slow speed air circ fans would do it. Power going nowhere was what got the non-believers on to Merlin, anyway.

Your comments on "search" made me go back and look up Merlin's operational time. It was only 75 seconds for what will happen and 2 minutes, eight seconds for how to handle it. So that makes perfect sense. It was the translating, which I don't buy anyway, that took 5 hours. So, one of my two objections is removed. As far as the HMI, when I say Lingua Terra, I'm not necessarily meaning spoken word. I would be perfectly in agreement with written info in-written info out. I just don't buy computer symbols as opposed to words. As far as retcon; I just don't even think about it. Kind of like I don't think about how ships' gravity is described as emanating from the core. Blah-blah-blah and I mentally brush those things that don't make sense to me aside. People on the ships walk on horizontal decks, slide rule must be slang for calculator, and it took "whatever" to read Merlin's response.

As far as self-driving cars; wait 'til the lawyers get a hold of those cases like the poor innocent babe on the tricycle being run over, not by impoverished big-dummy Bob, but by a greedy corporation with deep pockets looking to make ill-gotten gains selling lethal shiny baubles. Honestly, I can't believe companies are putting their necks in THAT noose.
2080
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-25-2020
18:09 UT
~
Mike "pennausamike" McGuirk wrote:

> Shoot, just cooling all that computing capability in a way
> that stays hidden would take tremendous volume.

This is an interesting point, and it would seem that Merlin must not have needed much of this--or the power to make it happen--because, presumably, it would have been relatively easy to notice that the power-plant at Force Command Duplicate was producing a whole bunch of power that didn't seem to be going anywhere (or that went to a whole bunch of seemingly-unnecessary cooling units). . . .

> The first part of the story logic that suffers in the face of
> today's computer and internet capability is the TIME it
> takes Merlin to search all data, and then form a (nearly
> sapient) conclusion. Google searches billions of gigs of
> data and returns a response in tenths of a second, even
> though the sources of that search are scattered all over
> the globe.

My reaction to this is a bit like yours to Merlin's size. "Search" is not a particularly sophisticated algorithm. The "bang" here comes in the volume of data being "searched," not the processing-needs of the search algorithm--and data storage is the place where the gains of miniaturization are the most apparent today. I'm not sure data "search" is a particularly good analogy for Merlin's processing capabilities.

> Even allowing for some higher level of reasoning to
> search all known data and then formulate a conclusion
> that takes into account all searchable individual and
> community psychology, social and economic trends,
> and likely military outcomes, I can't imagine a modern
> computer taking more than minutes to do so.

Actually, this is still the most "sci-fi" aspect of Merlin's capabilities. These sorts of tasks are still impossibly ~hard~ for contemporary computer processors. It's why we don't have things like "self-driving cars" that are very sophisticated. Sure, your new Tesla can drive down a highway on a sunny day while you're asleep at the wheel but put it on a curve in some light snow with an emergency vehicle with flashing lights and siren approaching from behind and an empty large appliance box blown--or a toddler on a tricycle peddaling--into the road in front of it and your Tesla is gonna throw up it's "artificially intelligent" hands and insist that the sleeping driver take over. . . .

> The second issue is that after having to frame the
> questions in some computer language, Merlin then spits
> out an answer that needs deciphered by computer techs.
> Nope, not buying that.

Agreed. This is a big stretch for our contemporary sensibilities. So how might one "retcon" this?

> Just like modern computer HMI's (Human-Machine
> Interface) are no longer in DOS or some such, I likewise
> believe it would only make sense for Merin's interface
> being able to interact with people in Lingua-Terra, not
> some programmer language. Merlin's designers had all
> that size to work with; it only makes sense that a part
> of it would be so a General could just ask his question
> without needing to involve a programmer/ interpreter.

This is especially troublesome given Conn's efforts to improve the ability of his mother's house-cleaning robot to accept voice commands. Perhaps this is a relatively new innovation, that Conn learned about while at university but that wasn't available to the designers of Merlin working half a century earlier?

I'm trying to think of examples of voice-activated automation in earlier Federation era yearns. . . .

(I also seem to remember Lucas Trask using some sort of light-activated remote-control for one of the robots he'd brought down to Marduk. So perhaps there's some sort of cultural aversion among Terro-humans to voice-activation?)

Yash'm.

David
--
"All the smart people on Terra, he explained, had Sheshan humanoid servants." - Conn Maxwell point-of view (H. Beam Piper), ~Junkyard Planet~
~
2079
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-25-2020
17:04 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Well, Force Command (or was it Force Command
> Duplicate? I'll have to look) was armoured in
> collapsium in case of nuclear attack. So one could
> argue that they took out all of the vulnerable silicon
> chips and put in good, resistant vacuum tubes.

I suppose that's a possibility but what I've suggested assumes that, when collapsium shielding comes along, they add that in ~addition~ to the existing, "integrated" shielding already built into the electronic components themselves because they never think to remove the shielding from the components, even though it's no longer necessary. (Again, just like we all type slower, even the "fastest" of us, because we're using a designed-to-be-slower QWERTY keyboard--even when it's simply a graphical simulation displayed on a screen interface that could easily be redesigned to be more effective.)

One interesting aspect of the economy of Beam's technology is that it's incredibly ~inexpensive~. All the contragravity and collapsium plating and nuclear-electric cells--and the industrial planet to produce them--are so cheap that these artifacts are ubiquitous even on backwater planets like Fenris and Zarathustra and Poictesme. Federation engineers are not folks who have been looking to drive "waste" out of their manufacturing process and supply chains. When they use the word "lean" they are ~always~ only talking about ~zhoumy~ or Zara-beest steak!

Bon appétit,

David
--
"A lot of technicians are girls, and when work gets slack, they're always the first ones to get shoved out of jobs." - Sylvie Jacquemont (H. Beam Piper), ~Junkyard Planet~
~
2078
pennausamikePerson was signed in when posted
04-25-2020
16:27 UT
For me, Merlin's size was never an issue. For everything Merlin is supposed to do, even a modern computer would be large. How much of the info that we access on our computers is actually stored on computers and servers scattered all over the world? I think if you were to combine the space taken up by data storage and servers for facebook, photobucket, google, amazon, ebay, NSA, cell phone communication companies, universities, business sites and every home computer, etc; even allowing for eliminating redundancies, Merlin's volume is not that outrageous to conceive of. (Bearing in mind this is all the info culled from hundreds of worlds, not just one.) Shoot, just cooling all that computing capability in a way that stays hidden would take tremendous volume. Then factor in triple redundancy and any unusual physical construction attributes meant to make Merlin more able to survive nuclear attack; yeah, well, I don't have to do any mental gymnastics to buy Merlin's physical size.

The first part of the story logic that suffers in the face of today's computer and internet capability is the TIME it takes Merlin to search all data, and then form a (nearly sapient) conclusion. Google searches billions of gigs of data and returns a response in tenths of a second, even though the sources of that search are scattered all over the globe. Even allowing for some higher level of reasoning to search all known data and then formulate a conclusion that takes into account all searchable individual and community psychology, social and economic trends, and likely military outcomes, I can't imagine a modern computer taking more than minutes to do so. The second issue is that after having to frame the questions in some computer language, Merlin then spits out an answer that needs deciphered by computer techs. Nope, not buying that. Just like modern computer HMI's (Human-Machine Interface) are no longer in DOS or some such, I likewise believe it would only make sense for Merin's interface being able to interact with people in Lingua-Terra, not some programmer language. Merlin's designers had all that size to work with; it only makes sense that a part of it would be so a General could just ask his question without needing to involve a programmer/ interpreter.

So, I guess if I were translating Cosmic Computer into a movie palatable to current audiences (at least from a tech viewpoint) I would keep Merlin's size, but speed up the response time and eliminate the conversion between human and machine comprehensible communication. Annnnd, done. Now, back to a ripping good yarn.
2077
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-25-2020
03:57 UT
Well, Force Command (or was it Force Command Duplicate? I'll have to look) was armoured in collapsium in case of nuclear attack. So one could argue that they took out all of the vulnerable silicon chips and put in good, resistant vacuum tubes.

There was a computer game from 25-ish years ago, Fallout, it's spawned a bunch of sequels. The original was set in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, the intro had some in-game ads for the latest wonderful machine, "No digital - all analog! Only $19999.99!"
2076
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-25-2020
03:19 UT
~
"You didn't tell [the Captain] how long it would really take, did you?"

That's former Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott--from an earlier era (and series)--speaking to fellow Chief Engineer Geordi LaForge in the ~Star Trek: The Next Generation~ episode "Relics."

It's a marvellous bit of "retcon"--retroactive continuity--which I think can be constructive when thinking about Beam's fictional universes.

In that ~Trek~ episode, the original Trek's Scotty is discovered after having been "suspended" in a weird, induced transporter loop for something like seventy-five years. It's a clever bit of "fan service" to enable one of the characters from the original series to interact with characters from the follow-on series.

In the scene where Scotty asks Geordi that question, Geordi is struggling to meet a deadline imposed by his captain after being asked to provide an estimated time to complete the task. Scotty is scandalized to learn that Geordi provided his actual estimate to the captain, rather than "padding" it with some extra time to ensure he would be able to complete the task in a manner that would exceed the captain's expectations.

It's an instance of "retcon" because, in the original series, written in a era of television when there were few "story arcs" which spanned multiple episodes (much less an entire season or even series), when each week's episode was often written by a different writer, Scotty was often asked to complete some task in some incredibly unreasonable amount of time and yet somehow managed to do so week after week after week.

Looked at in hindsight, especially by contemporary writers--and audiences--used to multi-episode story arcs, Scotty's "heroic" performance seems unbelievable and even silly. But by suggesting that Scotty had "padded" his estimates as a matter of course, the writers of "Relics" have "retconned" an explanation for these repeated "heroics" that both fits the original storyline(s) while "making sense" to modern audiences. It offers an "in setting" explanation for earlier storytelling which, at "second" take, seems believable.

There are lots of opportunities for this sort of "retconning" in Beam's work. Take the "cosmic computer," Merlin. "Cosmic" in this instance is used in the sense of "inconceivably vast"--really, really big--as opposed to the (typically more modern) sense of "relating to the universe or cosmos." Merlin's vast size is an essential element of the plot of ~Junkyard Planet~. As Conn Maxwell and his colleagues go looking for this lost supercomputer one of the clues to its whereabout is their assumption that, because it's so powerful, it must be of a certain size. And, indeed, the actual scale of this huge size ends up being one of the unexpected surprises in its final discovery.

But today, in the aftermath of the computer miniaturization which occurred after Beam wrote ~Junkyard Planet~, Merlin's vast size makes no sense to us. There's no reason for a "supercomputer" to be as large as a major military facility. Indeed, one of the features a contemporary reader might expect about a "supercomputer" is the way it manages to compress computing power into an even ~smaller~ size than we might assume.

So here's the "retcon" I use to make sense of Merlin's vast size, which must be the case for ~Junkyard Planet~ to still make sense. We have to assume there was no "miniaturization revolution" in Merlin's universe. That's a tough one. It's difficult to conceive of a spacefaring civilization which hadn't figured out how to make integrated circuits, and then learned to make them smaller and smaller as has been the case in our actual, non-fictional universe. So what might be different?

One thing that makes Merlin's universe very different from our own is the prevalence of nuclear war. In Merlin's past are a series of "Atomic Wars" which destroyed civilization in the Northern Hemisphere. Unlike our own civilization, the civilization which created Merlin is a nuclear war-fighting civilization. A nuclear war-fighting civilization will learn to build shielding around its electronic components to protect them from the damaging electro-magnetic effects generated by atomic explosions.

Now, eventually, this physical shielding would likely became redundant with the advent of "energy fields" which function as shielding, making large, thick, physical shielding unnecessary. But by that time, contragravity technology was ubiquitous, removing much of the incentives which exist in our actual universe for miniaturization. If "countering gravity" is no longer a particular challenge, there will be less need to make things "less massive"--and therefore smaller--in order to lift them against a planetary gravity well.

This means that the heavy physical shielding of electronic and computer technology may endure, just as the QWERTY keyboard on which I'm typing this message--designed a century ago to make typing ~slower~ so early typists wouldn't snarl the klunky, mechanical typebars--endures.

Merlin's not "cosmic" because it's made of trillions of vacuum tubes and ceramic capacitors; it's so large because it's not been optimized to remove the physical shielding which became commonplace in electronic components during the Atomic Wars.

Is this "retcon" ideal? Of course not. We don't actually believe it anymore than we believe the elderly Scotty's admission that he was "padding" his estimates to his captain all those years ago. But for Conn (like Geordi), ~in~ the fictional universe, it works exceptionally well.

Go boldly,

David
--
"Granted it can work a thousand, a million times faster than a human brain but it can't make a value judgment. It has no intuition. It can't think!" - Captain Kirk (D.C. Fontana), ~Star Trek~, "The Ultimate Computer"
~
2075
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-19-2020
01:05 UT
For the calendar discussion - in Space Viking, page 39, where the captain of the visiting tramp freighter is talking about being on that planet at the same time as Andray Dunnan: "I'd been there twelve local days, three hundred Galactic Standard hours..."

So obviously they differentiated between local time and 'standard' time. Don't know if there was a 'standard year' by the time Space Viking was set, or they just worried about hours of travel time.
2074
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-15-2020
01:42 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Perhaps, but there are a few mammals around that have
> brains physically larger than humans, but don't qualify
> under the talk-and-build-a-fire rule. So, who knows?

Don't get me wrong: huge fan of Whelan's Fuzzies.

But just look at the comparison between Jack Holloway's head and eyes with those of Little Fuzzy on his shoulder. LF's eyes are nearly as large as Jack's but his head is one-seventh or one-eighth the size.

As Whelan's portrayed them, the Fuzzies likely have incredible vision.

But sapience? Probably not so much. I mean, after all:

http://www.leviathanstudios.com/figures/fuzzy.html

Yeek!

David
--
"I saw a man shot once on Mimir, for calling another man a son of a Khooghra. The man who shot him had been on Yggdrasil and knew what he was being called." - Jack Holloway (H. Beam Piper), ~Little Fuzzy~
~
2073
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-15-2020
01:35 UT

Whelan's Fuzzies: brains and eyeballs
2072
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-15-2020
01:33 UT
~
Mike Robertson wrote:

> I suspect that people continued to use Atomic Era dating
> both because it was convenient and provided a common
> baseline.

I suspect that's right, and since any choice would be essentially arbitrary it seems likely they will stick with the traditional calendar which will still make sense for most Federation citizens--who happen to live on Terra--for much of the early Federation era. After that, it's simply "locked in" like a QWERTY keyboard (or the medieval Anno Domini across the globe today).

> Just as it would also be convenient to use day, week,
> month and year. As Wold Diehr did in his Fuzzy stories
> when he noted that the day was less than 24 hours so
> the number of minutes in an hour was adjusted for
> planetary time so that there was still 24 hours in a
> day. You would make a similar adjustment for the
> length of the year.

I suspect this is right too, with practice varying greatly from planet to planet to match local conditions. Something like Wolf suggested for a planet with slightly more or less than a Terran "day" while something vastly different for a "four-day" planet like Fenris.

> I could see a purely local contract between two entities
> reflecting both the local and Federation wide dates.
> Such as "This contract is executed on the 7th month
> and 13th day of the Zarathustra year, AE 755/June 25,
> AE 755 Federation."

Yep, as with the court cases cited in the Fuzzy novels.

Cheers,

David
--
"We talk glibly about ten to the hundredth power, but emotionally we still count, 'One, Two, Three, Many.'" - Otto Harkaman (H. Beam Piper), ~Space Viking~
~
2071
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-14-2020
01:25 UT
"I love 'em but, nevertheless, there is no way Whelan's Fuzzies have brains large enough for them to be sapient."

Perhaps, but there are a few mammals around that have brains physically larger than humans, but don't qualify under the talk-and-build-a-fire rule. So, who knows?
2070
Mike RobertsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
19:09 UT
 David Johnson writes;

"Even in the Space Viking era, centuries after the Terran Federation has collapsed, people are still using years (and months--twelve a year--and weeks) to measure lengths of time which seem generally equivalent to Terran intervals. They also use light-years to measure interstellar distances, a measure based upon the Terran year, and using the travel times in hours mentioned at several points, it's clear that months, if we can assume an "hour" is about an hour long, are generally about thirty days.

The "year" measures are used on multiple planets (both "barbarian" ones like Amaterasu and "civilized" ones like Marduk) and given their use both to measure the age of children and historical periods on the order of a century they seem pretty close to a Terran year.

We have no way to know whether they're still using leap-years but it's pretty obvious they're still using a calendar system that closely resembles the Gregorian system Beam describes as being the model when Atomic Era dating was implemented."


I suspect that people continued to use Atomic Era dating both because it was convenient and provided a common baseline. Just as it would also be convenient to use day, week, month and year. As Wold Diehr did in his Fuzzy stories when he noted that the day was less than 24 hours so the number of minutes in an hour was adjusted for planetary time so that there was still 24 hours in a day. You would make a similar adjustment for the length of the year. I could see a purely local contract between two entities reflecting both the local and Federation wide dates. Such as "This contract is executed on the 7th month and 13th day of the Zarathustra year, AE 755/June 25, AE 755 Federation."

Mike Robertson
2069
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
18:00 UT
~
Mike McGuirk wrote:

> Besides, the book the cover is attached to SAYS they're
> sapient, so they ARE.

Tough to argue with that logic. ;)

Yeek!

David
--
"Why not everybody make friend, have fun, make help, be good?" - Diamond Grego (H. Beam Piper), ~Fuzzy Sapiens~
~
2068
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
17:47 UT
~
Tim Tow wrote:

> There was also the French Revolutionary calendar in use
> after the French Revolution and briefly during the Paris
> Commune . . .

As a fan of The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon I've often been fascinated by the French Republican calendar.

I can imagine some 9th Century A.E. University of Adelaide scholars who might have confusedly advocated for its re-adoption.

Aux barricades!

David
--
"Adelaide had a Federation-wide reputation for left-wing neo-Marxist 'liberalism.'" - Foxx Travis point-of-view (H.Beam Piper), "Oomphel in the Sky"
~
2067
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
16:34 UT
~
Gerald Livings wrote:

> True. But if he had given it more thought, I suspect he
> would have not have wrote that.

Hmm, seems like he had given it a lot of thought.

> I still have a problem with an advanced society in
> space still figuring things out date wise because of
> some planet nobody has ever visited in the last
> several thousand years.

Sure, but now you've sort of wandered away from what Beam left us.

Even in the Space Viking era, centuries after the Terran Federation has collapsed, people are still using years (and months--twelve a year--and weeks) to measure lengths of time which seem generally equivalent to Terran intervals. They also use light-years to measure interstellar distances, a measure based upon the Terran year, and using the travel times in hours mentioned at several points, it's clear that months, if we can assume an "hour" is about an hour long, are generally about thirty days.

The "year" measures are used on multiple planets (both "barbarian" ones like Amaterasu and "civilized" ones like Marduk) and given their use both to measure the age of children and historical periods on the order of a century they seem pretty close to a Terran year.

We have no way to know whether they're still using leap-years but it's pretty obvious they're still using a calendar system that closely resembles the Gregorian system Beam describes as being the model when Atomic Era dating was implemented.

> Considering that every few decades, someone tries
> to come up with a new version of calendar reform, I
> find it hard to believe that the billions of people on
> other planets would think Sure, that makes a lot of
> sense.

It seems pretty obvious to me that Beam was using a calendar system that would make sense, primarily, to his mid-20th Century American readers rather than to the various peoples living throughout his Future History. (Heck, even the idea of an "Atomic Era" is sort of absurd by the time of the Space Vikings.) But the fact remains, he was pretty clear about what he intended and used that model consistently throughout his Future History yarns, especially those of the Federation era.

Cheers,

David
--
"It is not . . . the business of an author of fiction to improve or inspire or educate his reader, or to save the world from fascism, communism, racism, capitalism, socialism, or anything else. [The author's] main objective is to purvey entertainment of the sort his reader wants. If he has done this, by writing interestingly about interesting people, human or otherwise, doing interesting things, he has discharged his duty and earned his check." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
2066
pennausamikePerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
16:31 UT
Maybe Whelan's Fuzzies just use a higher percentage of their brain capacity?
Besides, the book the cover is attached to SAYS they're sapient, so they ARE.
2065
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
15:59 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Yes, the fuzzies as done by Whelan are 'The Definitive
> Picture', I agree.

I love 'em but, nevertheless, there is no way Whelan's Fuzzies have brains large enough for them to be sapient.

Yeek!

David
--
"I saw a man shot once on Mimir, for calling another man a son of a Khooghra. The man who shot him had been on Yggdrasil and knew what he was being called." - Jack Holloway (H. Beam Piper), ~Little Fuzzy~
~
2064
Tim TowPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
14:21 UT
There was also the French Revolutionary calendar in use after the French Revolution and briefly during the Paris Commune which decimalized the calendar with 12 30 day months broken up into 10 day weeks. This was also in addition to decimal time (10 decimal hour days, 100 decimal minute hours). It didn't last.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar
2063
Gerald LivingsPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
14:21 UT


David "PiperFan" Johnson "Beam agreed it didn't make a lot of sense (calendars are often like that--consider our tenth month, "October"), but said nonetheless: "The Gregorian calendar, with all defects, was adopted, merely setting back Jan. 1st to December 2nd." That's Beam himself in "The Future History:" "

True. But if he had given it more thought, I suspect he would have not have wrote that. The Gregorian calendar is still just a somewhat inaccurate system that still needs a lot of math and tracking of what century gets a leap year of not to say somewhat accurate. I still have a problem with an advanced society in space still figuring things out date wise because of some planet nobody has ever visited in the last several thousand years.

Considering that every few decades, someone tries to come up with a new version of calendar reform, I find it hard to believe that the billions of people on other planets would think Sure, that makes a lot of sense.

Lets have the calendar on Uller, or any other planet match the calendar on Terra.
Months with weird numbers of days, and lets throw in an extra day every four years, but lets not forget to NOT add that day at least 3 or 4 times per every few centuries just to keep things in time with a system does not even fit now as it has slowed slightly after the last few millennia.

I just have a hard time with the fact that there would not be some sort of calendar reform that works better with a people spread out over hundreds of planets.
If it were me, I would propose the Atomic calendar should have a year be:

1,000 days long,
10 months of 100 days,
10 weeks of 10 days.
each day would have 10 hours.

The Gregorian calendar has only been used for a few hundred years. If it was so right for atomic era dating, Why even use AE dating at all? That in itself is "Calendar Reform". I would think an advanced civilization would chose to use a system not based on religious holidays on a planet that most have never seen.

"The first pendulum mechanical clock was created by Christiaan Huygens in 1656, and was the first clock regulated by a mechanism with a "natural" period of oscillation. Huygens managed to refine his pendulum clock to have errors of fewer than 10 seconds a day. Today however, atomic clocks are the most accurate devices for time measurement. Atomic clocks use an electronic oscillator to keep track of passing time based on cesium atomic resonance. While other types of atomic clocks exist, cesium atomic clocks are the most common and accurate. The second, the SI unit of time, is also calibrated based on measuring periods of the radiation of a cesium atom." (https://www.calculator.net/time-calculator.html)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_reform
From the above linked page under the proposals heading
================================
Proposals

The Gregorian calendar is currently used by most of the world. There is also an international standard describing the calendar, ISO 8601, with some differences from traditional conceptions in many cultures.

Since the papal reform in 1582, several proposals have been offered to make the Gregorian calendar more useful or regular. Very few reforms have gained official acceptance. The rather different decimal French Republican Calendar was one such official reform, but was abolished twelve years later by Napoleon. After World War II, the newly formed United Nations continued efforts of its predecessor, the League of Nations, to establish the proposed World Calendar but postponed the issue after a veto from the government of the United States, which was mainly based upon concerns of religious groups about the proposed days that would be outside the seven-day week cycle ("blank days") and thus disrupt having a sabbath every seven days. Independently the World Council of Churches still tries to find a common rule for the date of Easter,[5] which might be eased by a new common calendar.

Reformers cite several problems with the Gregorian calendar:

    It is not perennial. Each year starts on a different day of the week and calendars expire every year.
    It is difficult to determine the weekday of any given day of the year or month.
    Months are not equal in length, nor regularly distributed across the year, and so some people rely on mnemonics (e.g., "Thirty days hath September" or knuckle counting) to remember the lengths of months.
    The year's four quarters (of three full months each) are not equal (being of 90/91, 91, 92 and 92 days respectively). Business quarters that are equal would make accounting easier.
    Its epoch, i.e. start of the year count, is religious. The same applies to month and weekday names in many languages.
    Each month has no connection with the lunar phases.
    Solstices and equinoxes do not coincide with either the beginning of the Gregorian months or the midpoint of the months.
    The calendar does not have a year zero, the year after 1 BC was 1 AD, with nothing in between them.

It is hard or even impossible to solve all these issues in just one calendar.

Most plans evolve around the solar year of a little more than 365 days. This number does not divide well by seven or twelve, which are the traditional numbers of days per week and months per year respectively. The nearby numbers 360, 364 and 366 are divisible in better ways. There are also lunar-centric proposals.
================================
2062
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
00:34 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Sylvie Jacquemont - huh, for some reason I'm picturing
> a brunette.

Your memory's better than mine:

"Conn saw that she was beautiful. Black hair, dark eyes, an impudently tilted nose."

Seems I was remembering Rylla-dad-Hostigos:

"She was beautiful--blond hair almost shoulder-length, laughing blue eyes, impudent tilty little nose dusted with golden freckles. . . ."

Beam sure liked those "impudently tilted noses." ;)

Cheers,

David
--
"Why, you--You parapeeper!" -- Morvan Kara (H. Beam Piper), "Police Operation"
~
2061
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-13-2020
00:18 UT
Yes, the fuzzies as done by Whelan are `The Definitive Picture`, I agree. Some of them are close - I`d be very surprised if K. Kotaki did not make a conscious decision to stick close to Whelan`s version - and others look like the artist`s deadline was approaching very quickly.

Ah well. On the one hand, if it gets more people interested in the original Piper, great, but I can`t see myself making an effort to follow it.

Sylvie Jacquemont - huh, for some reason I`m picturing a brunette. I`ll have to go look up her description now. Oh no, a reason to read more Piper!
2060
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-12-2020
19:08 UT
~
Gerald Livings wrote:

> Outside of Terra, the Terran calendar does not fit with
> any planetary orbital period or rotational period. So,
> hanging onto a leap day, and having random lengths
> for months does not seem like something HBP would
> have done.

Beam agreed it didn't make a lot of sense (calendars are often like that--consider our tenth month, "October"), but said nonetheless:

"The Gregorian calendar, with all defects, was adopted, merely setting back Jan. 1st to December 2nd."

That's Beam himself in "The Future History:"

http://www.zarthani.net/docs/future_history-zenith.pdf

(The Gregorian calendar was developed in part to address leap-year inaccuracies associated with the prior Julian calendar.)

Beam goes on to say, "It took about fifty years for everybody to agree to it, and some fanatical religious sects opposed it to the end of Terran Federation history."

Cheers,

David
--
"They used Atomic Era dating exclusively on Venus and he always had to count on his fingers to transpose to Christian Era and he usually remembered too late that there was no C.E. Year Zero." - Roger Barron (H. Beam Piper), "When in the Course--"
~
2059
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-12-2020
18:03 UT
~
Mike McGuirk wrote:

> In the first place, I have to admit that Michael Whelan's
> Fuzzy drawings defined the creatures for me. I simply
> can not accept any other artist conception and still be
> reading about Zarathustrian Fuzzies.

I agree. So much of Whelan's work serves as my default when it comes to visualizing Beam's fiction, especially the Fuzzies, even though many other folks--before and after Whelan--have grappled with illustrating them. Like Victor Kalins:

http://www.zarthani.net/Images/little_fuzzy-kalins.jpg

And Karel Thole:

http://www.mondourania.com/urania/u281-300/u298.jpg

And Karl Stephan:

http://www.zarthani.net/Images/der_kleine_fuzzy-stephan.png

And Paul Scharff:

http://web.archive.org/web/20170616221941/...eam-Piper-Oscar.jpg

And Beni LaRoche:

http://www.zarthani.net/Images/was_is_lost_auf_planet_zeno.jpg

And J. J. Vincent:

https://images.noosfere.org/couv/M/MasqSF064.jpg

And Terry Oakes:

http://www.zarthani.net/Images/fuzzy_papers-oakes.jpg

And Yoneda Hitoshi:

https://images-fe.ssl-images-amazon.com/im...O1,204,203,200_.jpg

And Jatner Janos:

https://www.szellemlovas.hu/webrend/images...undasnepseg_lrg.jpg

And Amy Sterling Casil:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/im...O1,204,203,200_.jpg

And Jeff Zugale:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_tIf3d0snmO0/S7zfENbr...zzy_Cover_FINAL.jpg

And Kekai Kotaki:

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5140301466_5e026fec0a_b.jpg

And whomever did these:

http://www.zarthani.net/Images/little_fuzzy-futura.png

http://images.contentreserve.com/ImageType...5E93F6%7DImg100.jpg

https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6225/6328827171_f0750f9ea0_z.jpg

And, of course, let's not forget Victoria Poyser:

http://www.zarthani.net/Images/fuzzy_papers-poyser_p198.png

In this large collection, it seems to me this latest depiction is not at all an outlier in terms verisimilitude or quality. ;)

> So the essence of being surprised by Pappy Jack's
> attachment to Little Fuzzy, and his uncharacteristic
> (for him) sorrow when he thinks Little Fuzzy
> leaves, along with many other similar character
> moments, are lost.

This is keenly observed and I agree with your point here, but we've already seen Scalzi portray a vastly different--and, for me, terribly disappointing--Holloway. I didn't care for ~Fuzzy Nation~ at all but it was the first new, Piper-related fiction published by a major commercial publisher in quite some time.

That, regardless of my take on the novel itself, was an unqualified "good thing." ;)

Yeek!

David
--
"Why Walt Disney bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never figured out. Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General Phil Sheridan by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to get the check." -- H. Beam Piper, ~The Pennsy~ interview, 1953
~
2058
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-12-2020
15:53 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Its dust-jacket bore a slightly-more-than-bust-length
> picture of a young lady with crimson hair and green
> eyes and jade earrings and a plunging - not to say
> power-diving - neckline that left her affiliation with the
> class Mammalia in no doubt whatever."
>
> Just tweak the hair colour a bit, and change the eyes
> from brown to green, and they'd have it!

I, uh . . . see your point. ;)

> I'll take her current design as an addition homage to
> Piper's work. :)

Other than that very last bit from the ~Uller~ description, this new "Jack Holloway" most reminds me of how I imagined Sylvie Jacquemont might look.

Cheers,

David
--
"A lot of technicians are girls, and when work gets slack, they're always the first ones to get shoved out of jobs." - Sylvie Jacquemont (H. Beam Piper), ~Junkyard Planet~
~
2057
Gerald LivingsPerson was signed in when posted
04-12-2020
14:23 UT
I should have looked into this earlier. It seems there are currently about 40 different calendars used around the world today.
http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar.html

Looking at them, it seems to me the Coptic calendar seems the most logical as a lead in to atomic era dating where people are in space.
13 months. the first 12 are 30 days long and the last one is 5 days for 3 years and 6 for leap year. As it seems there is a LOT of differences. I could easily see a space going population to settle on a very regular year with an easy to figure number of days independent of the rotation of any particular celestial body.

Take into account the following from the Chronology page:
"Terran Federation establishes colonies on Mars.
• ". . . the colonies on Mars and Venus; . . .colonies on Mars and Venus; . . . the revolt of the colonies on Mars and Venus." [EK; JFC says 108 AE but HBP implies this must occur prior to WWIV.]".
We are already in year AE 78.
WWIV started in AE 102. 28 years from now.
So, I suspect that Venus was colonized sometime between 1975 and 1996 when "Omnilingual" happened on Mars. So in 2020, right now, we should have the beginnings of a successful colony on Venus.

let’s look at dates on other bodies and compare:

* Terra 365ish days and 1.0 years.
* Luna zero or 29 Terran days / one orbit on how you want to look at it...
* Mars Rotation is just more than earth, 24.6 Terran hours. and orbits the sun every 1.88 Terran years
* Venus About 1.5 days orbits in 225 Terran days.
* Ceres about 1,682 Terran days to orbit. rotation???
* Vesta Orbital period is 3.63 Terran years. Rotation period: 5.342 hours. unless they came up with some way to slow the rotation of this body, the mass is (2.59076±0.00001)×1020 kg. I am no expert in math, but that is very heavy. With its rotation, it would not be possible to stay on the surface I suspect.
* Uller “Uller revolves around it in a nearly circular orbit, at a distance of 100,000,000 miles, making it a little colder than Earth. A year is of the approximate length of that on Earth. A day lasts 26 hours.” (Uller Uprising)
* Niflheim “Niflheim is 462,000,000 miles from its primary, a little less than the distance of Jupiter from our sun.” (Uller Uprising). I estimate the orbital period to be about 11 Terran years. The rotation of the planet was not given so it could be anywhere from 16 hours to as long as a year or more.
* [Every other planet in every HBP story] Who really thinks that every planet in a given star’s Goldilocks zone will have an identical orbital rotation and planetary rotation? (Venus and Mars are also in this habitable zone, but aren't currently habitable without a lot of work.)


Outside of Terra, the Terran calendar does not fit with any planetary orbital period or rotational period. So, hanging onto a leap day, and having random lengths for months does not seem like something HBP would have done.
By having twelve 30-day months, you get three weeks of 10 days each. (Read some of Elizabeth Moons work for an example of this.)
It seems like a good overall system for a race that spends a lot of time in space. And considering the problems of relativistic time dilation which would have to be computed after every trip in hyperdrive, simple is better.

I am leaning to a 360-day year for Atomic dating as it makes the math easier. Any thoughts?

Jerry
2056
Deleted by author 04-13-2020 06:34
2055
pennausamikePerson was signed in when posted
04-12-2020
14:18 UT
On one hand, paint me as the curmudgeon who doesn't care for the new look. In the first place, I have to admit that Michael Whelan's Fuzzy drawings defined the creatures for me. I simply can not accept any other artist conception and still be reading about Zarathustrian Fuzzies. The new art work makes them look like gangly monkeys. Aside from the fact that the creature wasn't a Fuzzy, I just found it unappealing. As far as Pappy Jack being changed to a female character, I'm not automatically opposed in principal, but I am opposed in this specific case. In part because Jack Holloway was Piper sharing a piece of himself in that character. Pappy Jack works as a character in part because he is a grumpy old guy. Think, "get off my lawn!" A young, pretty girl? We are conditioned to see her as nurturing and drawn to cute critters. So the essence of being surprised by Pappy Jack's attachment to Little Fuzzy, and his uncharacteristic (for him) sorrow when he thinks Little Fuzzy leaves, along with many other similar character moments, are lost. If the author wants to write a story about a woman who finds some awkward looking monkeys; hey, have at it. But don't call it H. Beam Piper's "Little Fuzzy". It's sort of like the awful, fascist, bug hunt movie being called "Starship Troopers". And in the third place, and this is just me, I just can't do Fuzzy stories written by anyone but Piper. Tuning's "Fuzzy Bones" hit a bunch of off-key notes for me in terms of both concept and character development. And because "Golden Dream: A Fuzzy Odyssey" developed from the Tuning plotline; yeah, it's not on my Piper bookshelf either. I like Piper's fictional people, and I don't want to read other authors trying to write in their voices. I love when authors create new stories and characters to inhabit Piper's Terro-Human Future History, but on my bookshelf, with only a couple of exceptions, Piper's people stay PIPER'S people. I said at the start, on the one hand, paint me as the curmudgeon who doesn't care for the new look. So I would say on the other hand, I don't really care what that author and his artist do. I am just not interested, and I'm not forced to trade one for another. If the new look and story was somehow able to REPLACE H. Beam Piper's "Little Fuzzy", I would be horrified. So carry on, but color me -yawn- uninterested.
2054
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-12-2020
06:13 UT
No, I understand that they went in a different direction to grab more readers, fair enough, that's the nature of the beast.

Do you remember, in Uller Uprising, towards the end where the good guys know they need to build a nuke, and they find all the historical / technical research that they need in a novel? I'll quote the section from page 167 of the Ace edition:

"The book was a novel - a jumbo-size historical novel, of some seven or eight hundred pages. Its dust-jacket bore a slightly-more-than-bust-length picture of a young lady with crimson hair and green eyes and jade earrings and a plunging - not to say power-diving - neckline that left her affiliation with the class Mammalia in no doubt whatever."

Just tweak the hair colour a bit, and change the eyes from brown to green, and they'd have it! I'll take her current design as an addition homage to Piper's work. :)
2053
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-11-2020
17:18 UT
~
Gerald Livings wrote:

> I am trying to add a page to my website that will tell you the
> currant date in atomic era as it would be for Pipers novels.

What a cool idea! Can't wait to see it.

> My question, would they have kept the leap day every 4th
> year? In a few thousand years, and being in space as well,
> it would be pointless.

Eventually, yes, but Atomic Era dating was developed early in Terran Federation history, so it would have still made sense to keep track of leap-years for most of the folks still living on Terra.

On the other hand, the Atomic Era dating seems to have been adopted on Venus before it was in widespread use on Terra, so perhaps the leap-year was less essential from early on.

Still, Atomic Era dating seems like a system that would likely have been developed by scientific rationalists. It seems unlikely such folks would choose a system that would quickly be out-of-whack with the traditional calendar system being used by most Terrans of the time.

Bottom line, I suspect Year One (essentially 1944 C.E., "with allowances for December overlaps") was also a leap year. ;)

Cheers,

David
--
"You know what Lingua Terra is? An indiscriminate mixture of English, Spanish, Portuguese and Afrikaans, mostly English. And you know what English is? The result of the efforts of Norman men-at-arms to make dates with Saxon barmaids." - Victor Grego (H. Beam Piper), ~Fuzzy Sapiens~
~
2052
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-11-2020
17:02 UT
~
Gerald Livings wrote:

> I know this might give some of the old school a twitch in the eye,
> but I look forward to a new version.

Welcome, Gerald!

> And I like the idea of switching up characters. Gives
> a different insight and brings in a new group of people who
> might not have read the story in the past.

I think this is key. Can be tough for folks to find a lot of Beam's work accessible these days if they're not in the demographic of the mid-20th Century, American pulp sci-fi market that Beam was trying to sell his stories into.

Yeek!

David
--
"I have heard it argued that fandom tends to make a sort of cult of science fiction, restricted to a narrow circle of the initiated. This I seriously question." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
2051
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-11-2020
16:45 UT
~
Jon Crocker wrote:

> Wow. "This isn't your father's Jack Halloway."

Nope. ;)

In a follow-up message--which I'm not clear I'm allowed to share--Charles has acknowledged this may be a controversial choice for some, but I kind of like it myself. Reminds me of Martha Dane.

As an adaptation, it's certainly a choice no more different than many of the choices Scalzi made in ~Fuzzy Nation~.

Yeek!

David
--
"It is not . . . the business of an author of fiction to improve or inspire or educate his reader, or to save the world from fascism, communism, racism, capitalism, socialism, or anything else. [The author's] main objective is to purvey entertainment of the sort his reader wants. If he has done this, by writing interestingly about interesting people, human or otherwise, doing interesting things, he has discharged his duty and earned his check." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
2050
Gerald LivingsPerson was signed in when posted
04-11-2020
05:56 UT

I am trying to add a page to my website that will tell you the currant date in atomic era as it would be for Pipers novels.
My question, would they have kept the leap day every 4th year? In a few thousand years, and being in space as well, it would be pointless.
Thoughts?
2049
Gerald LivingsPerson was signed in when posted
04-11-2020
05:10 UT
I know this might give some of the old school a twitch in the eye, but I look forward to a new version of Little Fuzzy.

My opinion, I like it when people bring their visions to a story. Total Recall, The Running Man, for a couple. The books and the movies are all different, but enjoyable.

And take the short story "The Bicentennial Man" by Asimov. It stands on its own as a great piece of writing.
Then you have "The Positronic Man" that was a joint effort by Issac Asimov and Robert Silverberg to turn this into a novel. Some changes, a lot added and fleshed out and an awesome story made better.
"The Bicentennial Man" movie was based on this story. Some changes due to the limits of a visual storytelling. Many changes, but in the end, who did not tear up when they were finally together?

All of them are wonderful stories. By having a different interpretation, I feel adds to the story of each telling. And I like the idea of switching up characters. Gives a different insight and brings in a new group of people who might not have read the story in the past.

I look forward to seeing this awesome story by our favorite author once again interpreted into a new media.

edit to include the title of Little Fuzzy. Kinda important information. ;)
Edited 04-11-2020 05:13
2048
Jon CrockerPerson was signed in when posted
04-10-2020
23:18 UT
Wow. "This isn't your father's Jack Halloway."
2047
David "PiperFan" JohnsonPerson was signed in when posted
04-10-2020
04:28 UT
~
Little Fuzzy graphic novel

This looks like a fascinating effort:

https://www.facebook.com/H-Beam-Pipers-Lit...el-103726444631485/

Enjoy!

David
--
"Why not everybody make friend, have fun, make help, be good?" - Diamond Grego (H. Beam Piper), ~Fuzzy Sapiens~
~
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