David "PiperFan" Johnson  09-25-2016
04:16 UT
|
~
More old PIPER-L messages at Wayback Machine!
It turns out that some of the old PIPER-L mailing messages _are_ archived at the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080828073705...chives/piper-l.html
Not
every message is there. In fact, there seem to be some huge gaps. But
there are some gems, like the very first message (from Geoffrey
Edwards):
https://web.archive.org/web/19991222222249...=piper-l&F=&S=&P=57
Enjoy,
David
--
"I
have heard it argued that fandom tends to make a sort of cult of
science fiction, restricted to a narrow circles of the initiated. This I
seriously question." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium"
interview
~
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-24-2016
05:43 UT
|
~
Found old PIPER-L message at Wayback Machine!
https://web.archive.org/web/20031124125927...l&T=0&F=&S=&P=17680
This
page was linked from Jimmy Simpson's old Piper website. PIPER-L had a
"no archive" feature so the List itself was not archived but it seems if
another page pointed to an individual post, it could be archived.
William Taylor's 2001 message which takes a stab at mapping the Federation may be the only surviving PIPER-L page on the Web!
David
--
"A
girl can punch any kind of a button a man can, and a lot of them know
what buttons to punch, and why." - Conn Maxwell (H. Beam Piper),
~Junkyard Planet~
~
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jimmyjoejangles 09-23-2016
02:04 UT
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No offence meant! The kids at work look at me as the old guy, they
are eighteen so its all relative. Back in the nineties I was hunting
down Hammond Innes and Graham Greene books. The only Sci Fi on my
fairly full shelves was a copy of Blade Runner and some Bradbury; mostly
what I would call Speculative Fiction now. Now my motto is "Put it in
space!" whenever a friend tells me about a cool show or book. Thanks for
the perspective on the prices and I had never been to Abe books before
so thanks for that as well, Edited 09-23-2016 02:06
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-23-2016
01:31 UT
|
~
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> Just curious about the prices going on ebay are they reasonable
> for these rare books? Hard covers and the like I mean.
[snip]
> I guess I'm wondering if you older guys are saying "Thank Ghu
> I've already got my copy! that price is too high!" or "Aw Niff, I
> paid three times that for my copy!"
Not
sure how I feel about being one of the "older guys" but it's been a
long, long time since I've thought, "Thank Ghu I've already got my
copy!" More often, in recent years, it's been, "Aw Niff, I paid three
times that for my copy!"
A couple things to keep in mind. First,
lots of folks don't know how to value these old Piper books and pulps
when they offer them for sale. Consider, for example, the Putnam
editions of ~Four-Day Planet~ and ~Junkyard Planet~ currently on offer
at ABEBooks:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResu...iper&bi=h&pn=putnam
Now,
sure, there's some variation in quality there, but none that accounts
for a range of three-dollars to $900! Some of those sellers simply have
no idea what "the market will bear" for the Piper item they have on
sale.
The other thing to keep in mind from this observation is
that patience is a virtue. Odds are, unless you're ready to jump on a
given book at the price it's offered the moment you come across it, with
time you'll probably come across a similar edition at a lower price.
As you suggest, each of us ourselves has to decide how much "not being patient" is worth.
Good luck,
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
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jimmyjoejangles 09-22-2016
03:47 UT
|
Just curious about the prices going on ebay are they reasonable for
these rare books? Hard covers and the like I mean. I'm a book
hoarder(still have all my Hardy Boys) and I wouldn't dream of parting
with anything. But sometimes it seems that I drive the prices up just
by searching for them. Last year I ended up paying a hundo for a book
that I could have got three months earlier for forty. I know its all
about what I'll pay for the books which often is a lot. I guess I'm
wondering if you older guys are saying "Thank Ghu I've already got my
copy! that price is too high!" or "Aw Niff, I paid three times that for
my copy!"
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-22-2016
03:35 UT
|
~
The "When in the Course--" reread is now up at Zarthani.net:
http://www.zarthani.net/h_beam_piper_reread.htm
Enjoy,
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
|
jimmyjoejangles 09-22-2016
03:19 UT
|
I recently read Typewriter Killer and remember that Piper toyed
with the idea of a Ripper story where the tables get turned. Well,
Robert Bloch wrote something very similar: A Toy For Juliette. It is in
Dangerous Visions and there is also a companion story by Harlan Ellison
in the same volume. I don't know if we worry about spoilers here (they
do on TWD forums) so I won't say more. Also the Piper connection might
be considered too small and I may have said too much already. Edited 09-22-2016 03:20
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-22-2016
02:36 UT
|
~
> Just got it for half the buy it now price!
Congrats, James!
($70 seemed a bit much for a former library edition; you got a good deal at half that.)
Now you'll have to track down its ~Lord Kalvan~ sibling!
Enjoy,
David
--
"Why
Walt Disney bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never
figured out. Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General
Phil Sheridan by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to
get the check." -- H. Beam Piper, The Pennsy interview, 1953
~
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jimmyjoejangles 09-21-2016
11:47 UT
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Just got it for half the buy it now price! this make an offer button is nice! thanks for the back up gents!
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pennausamike 09-21-2016
05:21 UT
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>Several years ago, when I lived "back east" in Maryland, Mike McGuirk came down from >Pennsylvania to visit.
>Besides the replicas he'd made of firearms described in Beam's sci-fi yarns
>(on another timeline, Mike is a Volund gunsmith), he'd brought along several of his books
>and
magazines. We sat around admiring each other's stuff like a couple of
Sword Worlds kids >opening presents on New Year's.
Yup, I
remember it like it was only yesterday (as opposed to the nearly 2
decades that it actually was.) At the time, I had never met another
person who had read Piper, let alone had stories I didn't even know
existed. As David said, it was uber-cool to share the artifacts,
writings and ideas of Piper's works and worlds. I remember thinking at
the time how odd it was to be comfortable meeting a complete stranger
based on interaction on a forum. In my time online I have "made
friends" with a few more than a dozen people in two hobby areas (Piper
and Firefly prop making)
http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3541
I have met a few folks in person and if any of the rest showed up on my doorstep
(with a days notice, cuz cleanin' up 'n' yunno....)
I'd invite them in as any decade-plus friendship would allow.
Anyway,
at this point I have multiple copies of a number of variations of all
of Piper's works. Since I'm mostly the only person reading them, I
figure I have enough. But it sure was fun getting here!
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-21-2016
04:32 UT
|
~
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> Have you seen this Garland Science Fiction Library edition from
> 75. It says it is part of a collection of 45 SF books selected by
> Lester Del Rey.
Yep. First hardcover edition is correct. Original, with no dust jacket. It's listed in the Future History bibliography here:
http://www.zarthani.net/future_history_bibliography.htm
There's a Garland edition of ~Lord Kalvan~ too. They were limited runs so they're pretty rare.
Good luck!
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-21-2016
04:26 UT
|
~
Jim Broshot wrote:
> Pulp issues as found at Internet Archive in issues
> of ASTOUNDING
Ah, excellent, Jim! Thanks for sleuthing these out for us.
David
--
"Good things in the long run are often tough while they're happening." - Otto Harkaman (H. Beam Piper), ~Space Viking~
~
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Jim Broshot 09-21-2016
03:23 UT
|
Trying this again
The Mercenaries
https://archive.org/details/AstoundingScienceFictionv45n1
Police Operation
https://archive.org/details/AstoundingScienceFictionv41n5
He Walked Around The Horses
https://archive.org/details/AstoundingScienceFictionv41n2
and as extracted from four issues of Astounding (complete with illustrations)
Space Viking
https://archive.org/details/SpaceViking
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jimmyjoejangles 09-21-2016
03:20 UT
|
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Space-Viking-by-H-...:g:uREAAOSwdzVXuw5q
Have
you seen this Garland Science Fiction Library edition from 75. It says
it is part of a collection of 45 SF books selected by Lester Del Rey. I
made an offer. Hopefully I didn't just drive the price up.
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Jim Broshot 09-21-2016
03:17 UT
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Pulp issues as found at Internet Archive in issues of ASTOUNDING
The Mercenaries (March 1950)
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jimmyjoejangles 09-21-2016
02:33 UT
|
Thanks alot for checking into that! I looked pretty hard on that Ace
image Library and only could find A Planet for TExans by Piper listed,
but I'll keep looking. I think I'm going to start looking for the old
pulp issues, they seem to be in plenty and reasonably priced as well,
some anyway. I was also thinking about putting a post on craigslist in
search of the old shopper papers that he occassionaly would write for,
the name escapes right now but maybe some are still out there.
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-21-2016
01:41 UT
|
~
James,
It's a match! All four of the books in your Ace
boxed set have the same ISBNs as the four in my set. Seems we both have
the original set!
Thanks again.
David
~
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-20-2016
14:23 UT
|
~
Very much appreciate the photos, James!
> It does look like the box may be a little too big.
> But the newest copyright is nineteen sixty five on
> Lord Kalvan
I'll have to dig out my set to check the full ISBNs but the $1.95 price on all of the books looks promising.
Thanks again!
David
--
"Why not everybody make friend, have fun, make help, be good?" - Diamond Grego (H. Beam Piper), ~Fuzzy Sapiens~
~
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jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
12:20 UT
|
And the last. It does look like the box may be a little too big. But
the newest copyright is nineteen sixty five on Lord Kalvan Edited 09-20-2016 12:22
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jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
12:16 UT
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And
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jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
12:15 UT
|
Another
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jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
12:14 UT
|
Here's some pics
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-20-2016
05:27 UT
|
~
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> By way of meet and greet I'm just curious how many members
> there are to the forum?
At
the bottom of the discussion forum page there is a count of
subscribers. With the new security protocols in place this counts
everyone who has "posting" access. Others may be reading the
forum--it's a "public" webpage--but they can't post messages or receive
posts by e-mail.
> I'm thirty six years old.
I was a
toddler when Beam discarnated. My first introductions to his work were
the Ace reprints and John Carr's Piper collections when I was in high
school and college.
> Also it seems like there must be some pretty impressive collections
> here, anyone want to brag.
Pretty much everything I have is listed at the Zarthani.net hoard:
http://www.zarthani.net/h_beam_piper_hoard.htm
I
picked up most of the originals on eBay back in the late '90s and early
'00s--when they were a lot more expensive than they are now! The World
Wide Rummage Sale has pretty much turned the value of my collection
into that of a pile of old paper. . . .
I have multiple copies of
many items. I'm trying to collect a copy of each ISBN of the Ace
reprints. And there are plenty of foreign language translations that I
don't yet have. . . .
Several years ago, when I lived "back east"
in Maryland, Mike McGuirk came down from Pennsylvania to visit.
Besides the replicas he'd made of firearms described in Beam's sci-fi
yarns (on another timeline, Mike is a Volund gunsmith), he'd brought
along several of his books and magazines. We sat around admiring each
other's stuff like a couple of Sword Worlds kids opening presents on New
Year's.
I brought along a copy of the Book Club edition of ~The
Fuzzy Papers~ to give to my wife on our first actual date. (She's an
attorney.) This summer I read ~The Adventures of Little Fuzzy~ to my
son for the first time.
> I just started so I only have a couple gems(I think) but really they
> were the only things I could lay hands on. I have the Petrified
> Planet and the Ace box set, I've only seen them each once and I
> scooped them up immediately.
~The Petrified Planet~ is a great find, up there with the Putnam originals of ~Junkyard Planet~ and ~Four-Day Planet~.
I'd
love to see photos of that Ace boxed set, showing the number on the
side of the box and the ISBN numbers of the four books. I'd share them
with Michael Smith of the Ace Image Library:
http://people.uncw.edu/smithms/ACE.html
I
sent him photos of my boxed set a few years back, but we can't tell if
the four books are original to the box or not. It would be great to see
another set to compare them to.
David
--
"Do you know
which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or which ones
to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
|
jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
04:23 UT
|
cool! thanks! I posted a more extensive bio a couple weeks ago, don't know if I should repost it. post 1369 Edited 09-20-2016 04:25
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Jim Broshot 09-20-2016
04:12 UT
|
66. Bought my first Piper tale (Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen) in the
original (?) Ace paperback in junior high school and still have it. Read
Uller Uprising in the Twayne Triplet which I found in the Rolla Public
Library when we moved down here from Chicago in 1964. Have the Ace
paperback of Space Viking (courtesy of a high school friend from long
ago), rest of the collection are the reprints.
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jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
03:59 UT
|
By way of meet and greet I'm just curious how many members there are to
the forum? I'm thirty six years old. Am I the old guy(Doubtful) or the
young guy? Also it seems like there must be some pretty impressive
collections here, anyone want to brag. I just started so I only have a
couple gems(I think) but really they were the only things I could lay
hands on. I have the Petrified Planet and the Ace box set, I've only
seen them each once and I scooped them up immediately.
|
jimmyjoejangles 09-20-2016
03:41 UT
|
Uller Uprising is far and away the best of the Triplets. Piper studied
the essay introduction and included almost everything from it in his
yarn. Uller Uprising is a novel about Uller. The other two just took
place on a planet called Uller, if you know what I mean.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-20-2016
03:27 UT
|
~
The first "shared world" science-fiction?
The Wikipedia
entry for John D. Clark, who wrote the "Introduction" to ~The Petrified
Planet~, the "Twayne Triplet" omnibus in which Beam's first Terro-human
Future History yarn, ~Uller Uprising~, was first published, says that L.
Sprague de Camp described Clark's essay--and ~The Petrified Planet~--as
the first "shared world" work.
Besides setting the stage for
Uller--and Nifflheim--Clark's essay also establishes the naming
convention for planets adopted by Beam in his Future History yarns.
Beam tells us in "When in the Course--" that the "Astrographic
Commission won't accept Helleno-Roman names for anything outside the Sol
System [and] prefer names from Norse mythology, as long as they last."
But this is actually echoing Clark's essay from ~The Petrified Planet~
in which he wrote "it seems that when interstellar travel was developed,
the names of Greek Gods had been used up, so those of Norse gods were
used."
What this suggests is that not only was ~The Petrified
Planet~ the first "shared world" work but also that, in some sense, the
entire Terro-human Future History is a "shared world" setting, with key
elements tracing their origins back to Clark's essay.
David (with hat-tip to John H. Costello)
--
"I
was going to write like James Branch Cabell, which would have taken a
lot of doing. Before that, I was going to write like Rafael Sabatini,
and like Talbot Mundy, and like Rider Haggard, and even, God help us
all, like Edgar Rice Burroughs. . . . Eventually I decided to write
like H. Beam Piper, only a little better. I am still trying." - H. Beam
Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-20-2016
03:09 UT
|
~
Gregg Levine wrote:
> How many have read it, that is "THE MERCENARIES"? And appreciate
> its irony?
Not
sure about the irony but "The Mercenaries" is one of my favorite Piper
yarns. I _love_ the concept of "sovereign" entities based upon
intellectual skills rather than on the control of physical territory
challenging--or at least co-existing with--nation-states. I've always
wondered what would become of the "Free Scientists."
Cheers,
David
P.S.
"The Mercenaries" is a "Hartley Yarn" (i.e. tied to "Time and Time
Again" and "Day of the Moron") and therefore not a Terro-human Future
History yarn like "Omnilingual."
--
"Ideas for science fiction
stories like ideas for anything else, are where you find them, usually
in the most unlikely places. The only reliable source is a mind which
asks itself a question like, 'What would happen if--?' or, 'Now what
would this develop into, in a few centuries?' Or, 'How would so-and-so
happen?' Anything at all, can trigger such a question, in your field if
not in mine." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill Symposium" interview
~
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Gregg Levine 09-20-2016
02:51 UT
|
H.Beam Piper wrote an excellent story called "THE MERCENARIES". It
described a group of people involved with building the first spaceship
to the Moon. He describes the different groups involved with building
them. It takes place before "Omnilingual" obviously however I got to
that one first.
How many have read it, that is "THE MERCENARIES"? And appreciate its irony? Oh and Dave it worked.
|
Jim Broshot 09-19-2016
05:33 UT
|
To follow up. If I post the message with the link as is, it is rejected. So I used "hxxp" to start, in lieu of "http" to start.
As mentioned this is a bit of a pain.
|
Jim Broshot 09-19-2016
05:31 UT
|
I checked and could not find any at Internet Archive. Although there are a lot of issues of Astounding listed.
|
|
|
Spam deleted by QuickTopic 09-19-2016 06:06
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Jim Broshot 09-19-2016
04:35 UT
|
FWIW the February 1957 issue of "Astounding Science Fiction" as found (and downloadable) from Internet Archive:
hxxps://archive.org/details/Astounding_v58n06_1957-02_Gorgon776
This is a pain in the posterior, I have tried to post this link three times so far
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-19-2016
01:48 UT
|
~
Piper's untitled ~Ventura II~ illustration
Anyone have any
idea who might own the framed original(?) of Piper's illustration from
the 1965 fanzine ~Ventura II~ shown at the bottom of the page here:
http://fancyclopedia.wikidot.com/h-beam-piper
Anyone know how to contact fan Curt Phillips who is credited with the photographs? (His linked website isn't working.)
Would love to hear the story of that illustration. How cool to have that hanging on one's wall!
David
--
"They
were turning into the main hallway, between the rows of portraits of
past emperors, Paul and Rodrik, Paul and Rodrik, alternating over and
over on both walls." - Ministry of Disturbance
~
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jimmyjoejangles 09-12-2016
03:40 UT
|
Piperverse Update: Just re-read temple trouble and it is
collapsed nickel plating not solid collapsed Nickel. In fact the walls
of the temple of Yat Zar are lined with it as well.... Edited 09-12-2016 11:03
|
| |
Spam messages 1405-1404 deleted by QuickTopic 09-12-2016 01:06 AM |
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-11-2016
21:42 UT
|
~
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> Then there is the ice planet Hoth. Does it really exist?
Imhotep, totally.
David
--
"And
you know what English is? The result of the efforts of Norman
men-at-arms to make dates with Saxon barmaids." - Victor Grego (H. Beam
Piper), ~Fuzzy Sapiens~
~
|
jimmyjoejangles 09-11-2016
20:52 UT
|
What story is the illustration on the cover of The Worlds of H Beam
Piper supposed to represent? Because I feel like I have seen a photo of
a film that looked similar. Also are there any movies that have used
stories from the Piperverse since it has gone into public domain? Is
any one out there actively trying to get something made? Can we do it?
I think that Omnilingual would make a great Treehouse of Horrors on the
Simpsons.
|
jimmyjoejangles 09-11-2016
20:30 UT
|
So to me it seems that some things from Star Wars are obviously lifted
right from the pages of the Piperverse. (That's right I'm still not
sold!)
The Death Star is just a scaled up version of NEMESIS. I
believe that would make the best space craft by the way, few things go
through the universe with the stability of a planet, so why not shape
our vessels like them?
The Ewoks are also just a scaled up version of Fuzzies.
Then there is the ice planet Hoth. Does it really exist?
Also one of the aliens in Mos Eisley fits the description of a Kwant.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-11-2016
18:48 UT
|
~
The "Omnilingual" re-read is now available too:
http://www.zarthani.net/h_beam_piper_reread.htm
Enjoy,
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university]. The
tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish Ware
(H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-10-2016
16:08 UT
|
~
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> I'd like to be invited please.
Glad
to hear it. If you're not already subscribed to receive e-mail
messages from the list, please send me an e-mail message directly at
"piperfan (at) zarthani (dot) net" and I will send you an invitation in
the next few days. (Just posting here to the forum doesn't work because
I don't know the e-mail address to send your invitation to.)
See you on the "other side."
David
--
"I
don't understand computers: Why, I don't even understand the people who
understand computers!" - Juliana, Queen of the Netherlands
~
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-10-2016
16:05 UT
|
~
H. Beam Piper "Re-read" coming to Zarthani.net
I'm adding a new feature to the H. Beam Piper Home Page:
http://www.zarthani.net/h_beam_piper_reread.htm
This
will feature "re-read" reviews of Beam's work which assume that the
reader has already read the yarn being reviewed. Mostly, this means
there will be "spoilers" but it also means there will be assorted "meta"
information about how the yarn being reviewed fits into Beam's larger
work.
So far, there's just a re-read of "The Edge of the Knife,"
though the "Omnilingual" re-read will also be posted soon. I'll be
working on the rest of the Terro-human Future History yarns in the weeks
ahead.
Enjoy,
David
--
"Do you know which books to
study, and which ones not to bother with? Or which ones to read first,
so that what you read in the others will be comprehensible to you?
That's what they'll give you [at university]. The tools, which you
don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish Ware (H. Beam Piper),
~Four-Day Planet~
~
|
|
Serena DuBois [SerenaDB]
09-10-2016
14:04 UT
|
I'd like to be invited.
|
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jimmyjoejangles
09-10-2016
11:59 UT
|
I'd like to be invited please.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-07-2016
05:26 UT
|
~
Apologies for some housekeeping here, folks.
QuickTopic,
which hosts Zarthani.net's Piper mailing list and discussion forum, has
changed some of its practices in an effort to better protect the privacy
of QuickTopic users. That's a good thing.
But these changes
have also changed some of my abilities as moderator. The reasons for
this are complicated but basically it's due to QuickTopic doing its best
to protect the privacy of people who may have joined its forums
"anonymously" without having been specifically invited to do so.
In
response, I'm going to change the way the mailing list and forum works a
bit and, depending upon how you use it now, this may change the way you
use it a bit too. I'm going to shift to allowing only registered
subscribers to post to the list (i.e. I'm going to enforce the "by
invitation only" membership a bit more diligently). If you don't want
to register you will still be able to read messages on the discussion
forum but you won't be able to post messages (or get them by e-mail
subscription).
Unfortunately, to do this I will need to
unsubscribe all of the current users. (Again, with respect to the
privacy issue, QuickTopic can't tell which of you have subscribed "by
invitation" and which have subscribed "anonymously.") I'm planning to
make this change sometime this coming weekend (Sep. 10th & 11th).
If you're subscribed to the forum you'll get a message from QuickTopic
telling you you've been "unsubscribed" that will also include
instructions for re-subscribing. You'll have to do this yourself;
unfortunately I can't do it for you (though I'll do my best to assist if
you have any difficulty). My apologies in advance for any
inconvenience this may cause.
If you have any difficulties please
contact me directly at <piperfan (at) zarthani (dot) net>. If
you're not currently subscribed, you can subscribe before this weekend
and you'll be included in the unsubscribe/re-subscribe process with
everyone else. Or, you can just send me an e-mail message and I will
send you an invitation to subscribe once we have the new system in
place.
Now back to your regular programming.
David
P.S.
Let me also, once again, thank those of you who have helped to pay the
costs of providing this resource to Piper fans. Your support is very
much appreciated.
--
"I don't understand computers: Why, I don't
even understand the people who understand computers!" - Juliana, Queen
of the Netherlands
~
|
|
Grimmoer
09-06-2016
22:08 UT
|
I think Scalzi should stay away from anything Piper related. There are
plenty of other really great stories out there for him to maim.
Jackson
|
|
Fuzzy Nation
09-06-2016
18:49 UT
|
Thanks for the assessment on Fuzzy Nation. Did that book do well enough
to merit a sequel or further work on redoing Piper's stories. Scalzi had
also written around the same time as Fuzzy Nation, The Android's
Dream, with sheep on the cover, thought I think that was the only
connection to Philip K. Dick's famous story.
|
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Serena DuBois
09-06-2016
01:47 UT
|
I should have also commented that Wolf posts regularly on the
Piperworlds email list on Yahoo. He was on there on the 2nd of this month. Serena
|
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Serena DuBois
09-06-2016
01:43 UT
|
I checked the link for bardstale and want to note that all the messages
in that link were from 2012. I checked the list of posts and found one
from 2016.
SerenaDB
|
|
David Sooby
09-05-2016
14:08 UT
|
Grimmoer said:
> ...how does the Abbot Lift and Drive work? Could it not be scaled down to landspeeder size and do all
> the work without the jet engines? Oh, sure, initially very expensive to build as I am sure contragravity
> was. Still, eventually it could be put on anything bigger than a breadbox.
Actually,
contragrav must be very cheap, since it has replaced wheels on pretty
much all vehicles in the Federation. Even armored tanks move thru the
air by contragrav, and only lower themselves to the ground to crawl on
treads as they go into battle.
How does Abbott (or Abbot) Lift
& Drive work? Well, so far as I can see, the only time the term
"Abbott lift & drive" is used, it's when it is installed in a
spacecraft. But here's a description of the "ship engines" from FOUR-DAY
PLANET, and I'm assuming AL&D works by the same principle:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You know anything about engines, Walt?" he asked me.
"I
know they generate a magnetic current and convert rotary magnetic
current into one-directional repulsion fields, and violate the daylights
out of all the old Newtonian laws of motion and attraction," I said. "I
read that in a book. That was as far as I got. The math got a little
complicated after that, and I started reading another book."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--FOUR-DAY PLANET, ch. 7 (p. 78 in the 1984 Ace printing)
Note
that THE COSMIC COMPUTER specifies a starship's AL&D is installed
in the center of the ship (chapter XIV), so it cannot work as a reaction
drive. Installed in the center of the ship, there would be no place for
the reaction exhaust to go.
I'm assuming that AL&D is
installed on gimbals, so it can be swiveled to provide thrust in any
direction. That's another reason why it needs to be installed in a
ship's center of mass. Installing it off-center would make it hard to
steer the ship in a straight line; it would always tend to veer off in a
curve.
So, why don't they use AL&D for everything, as it's
much more versatile than contragrav? I'm assuming that AL&D is a lot
more expensive than is contragrav. At the very least, it seems clear
that contragrav is ubiquitious and AL&D isn't. There are other
possibilities; AL&D generators may be much larger than contragrav
generators, or they may require much more power. Or some combination of
the above.
Another passage from FOUR-DAY PLANET gives a clue:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A
hunter-ship looks big on the outside, but there's very little room for
the crew. The engines are much bigger than would be needed on an
ordinary contragravity craft, because a hunter-ship operates under water
as well as in the air.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--FOUR-DAY PLANET, ch. 7 (p. 78 in the 1984 Ace printing)
This
is perhaps a bit confusing; are the "engines" the propulsion engines or
the contragrav generators? The hunter ships did the ability to reverse
the contragrav effect, to force the ship to sink into the water, so
perhaps that needed larger contragrav generators. But no, I think Piper
meant the propulsion engines needed to be much more powerful because it
takes much more thrust to move a ship at a good speed underwater than it
does to move it thru the air.
* * * * *
There is a curious passage in THE COSMIC COMPUTER:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It
didn't take Conn long to appreciate the problems involved in the
conversion. Built to operate only inside planetary atmosphere and
gravitation, the /Harriet Barne/ was long and narrow, like an old ocean
ship; more than anything else, she had originally resembled a huge
submarine. Spaceships, either interplanetary or interstellar, were
always spherical with a pseudogravity system at the center. This, of
course, the /Harriet Barne/ lacked.
"Well, are we going to make the whole trip in free fall?" he wanted to know.
"No,
we'll use our acceleration for pseudograv halfway, and deceleration the
other half," Jacquemont told him. "We'll be in free fall about ten or
fifteen hours. What we're going to have to do will be to lift off from
Poictesme in the horizontal position the ship was designed for, and then
make a ninety-degree turn after we're off-planet, with our lift and our
drive working together, just like one of the old rocket ships before
the Abbott Drive was developed."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--THE COSMIC COMPUTER ch. XII
And
indeed, later in the book they do re-install the ship's lift engine on a
swivel, so they can swing it back to thrust in line with the ship's
drive for interplanetary travel. That suggests to me the lift engines
and the drive engines are the same thing, just installed in the original
ship to point in different directions.
So why would the /Harriet
Barnes/ have been built with what appears to be AL&D for lift,
instead of contragravity? I can only assume it's because it was built
using army surplus, salvaged AL&D engines, which on Poictesme were
perhaps cheaper than even a new contragravity generator.
|
|
David Sooby
09-05-2016
14:07 UT
|
"I won't even go into what Scalzi did (shudder.)"
I wouldn't
recommend Scalzi's reboot, FUZZY NATION, but not for the fact that it's
not even remotely like anything Piper would have written. Rather,
because Scalzi removes the essential conflict from the story, making it
far less interesting and involving. I think Scalzi is a fine writer, and
I found OLD MAN'S WAR to be one of the best SF stories I've read in
recent years, so the problem isn't that Scalzi doesn't know how to write
a good story.
LITTLE FUZZY's main conflict is whether or not the
Fuzzies are truly sapient, and thus whether or not they deserve to be
treated as "people" by Federation courts. Of course, Piper depicts the
Fuzzies in a way that causes the reader to immediately and thoroughly
sympathize with them, but the actual legal question isn't resolved... I
hope this isn't a spoiler for anyone, but if you haven't read LITTLE
FUZZY, then STOP READING NOW...
...until the end of the book; a
deux ex machina resolution whereby the Fuzzies are revealed to have been
using real language to talk to each other all along.
Contrariwise,
Scalzi's depiction of Fuzzies shows them talking to each other using
fairly sophisticated language from their first appearance. Therefore,
the central conflict in Piper's story is missing, making the story far
less interesting. Scalzi's story is basically a couple of lawyers using
largely specious lawyer-type arguments to get the better of each other
in a court case. The closest the story comes to actual suspense is the
reader wondering just how much the supposed protagonist is motivated by
his own selfish interests, and how much -- if any at all -- by
altruistic concerns for the Fuzzies.
Not exactly compelling reading, at least not for *this* reader!
|
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David Sooby
09-05-2016
14:06 UT
|
Grimmoer said:
"A noticeable difference between the nickel statue
and 99% of collapsium usage in the THFH is that the statue is described
as being solid collapsed metal, which would weight A LOT! tens of
hundreds of tons, I would think. In the THFH collapsium is typically a
few microns thick lamination on polysteel."
Yes, you bring up a
crucial point. Indeed, the collapsed nickel was described as forming the
structure of the statue in "Temple Trouble", whereas collapsium is
always described as laminated onto steel or some other strong metal.
So,
I think we can state with confidence that they are two different
things, and thus absolutely no indication of a connection between THFH
and Paratime.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-05-2016
06:43 UT
|
~
Jackson "Grimmoer" Russell wrote:
> How do we get ahold of him?
Looks like he was posting here a while back:
http://bardstale.brotherhood.de/talefiles/...opic.php?f=5&t=1005
David
--
"You
had a wonderful civilization here. . . . You could have made almost
anything of it. But it's too late now. You've torn down the gates; the
barbarians are in." - Lucas Trask (H. Beam Piper), ~Space Viking~
~
|
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Grimmoer
09-05-2016
06:35 UT
|
How do we get ahold of him? I heard someplace that writers don't like
people to give them story ideas. Legal bru-ha-ha and all that. It
would be cool if he could do it, though.
Jackson
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-05-2016
06:28 UT
|
~
Jackson "Grimmoer" Russell wrote:
> If I were a writer I would think there was a story in there.
Perhaps we could get Wolfgang Diehr to write it.
David
--
"Considering
the one author about whom I am uniquely qualified to speak, I question
if any reader of H. Beam Piper will long labor under the
misunderstanding that he is a pious Christian, a left-wing liberal, a
Gandhian pacifist, or a teetotaler." - H. Beam Piper, "Double: Bill
Symposium" interview
~
|
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Grimmoer
09-05-2016
06:25 UT
|
If I were a writer I would think there was a story in there.
Jackson
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-05-2016
05:54 UT
|
Jackson "Grimmoer" Russell wrote:
> So, then, how does the Abbot Lift and Drive work? Could it not be
> scaled down to landspeeder size and do all the work without the
> jet engines? Oh, sure, initially very expensive to build as I am
> sure contragravity was. Still, eventually it could be put on anything
> bigger than a breadbox. Might need its own mass-energy
> converter to power it...
Now
I can't help imagining "a middle-aged colonel on a decent planet [like]
. . . Baldur, with snow-capped mountains, and clear, cold lakes, and
rocky rivers dashing under great vine-hung trees" spending a sunny, late
summer afternoon floating above one of those rivers in his Abbot
lift-and-drive inner-tube with his contragravity cooler bumping along
behind him on a short line.
Beer?
David
--
"I was
born in Antarctica, on Terra. The water's a little too cold to do much
swimming there. And I've spent most of my time since then in central
Argentine, in the pampas country." - Glenn Murell (H. Beam Piper),
~Four-Day Planet~
|
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Grimmoer
09-05-2016
00:27 UT
|
This brings up something else. While contragravity is very useful, it
wouldn't counter inertia anymore than being in space would. Heavy to
lift means heavy to push, at least initially, and hard to stop once it
gets going. So, then, how does the Abbot Lift and Drive work? Could
it not be scaled down to landspeeder size and do all the work without
the jet engines? Oh, sure, initially very expensive to build as I am
sure contragravity was. Still, eventually it could be put on anything
bigger than a breadbox. Might need its own mass-energy converter to
power it...Mr. Fusion! So that’s how Christopher Lloyd did it in
Back to the Future!
Jackson
|
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jimmyjoejangles
09-05-2016
00:25 UT
|
cool thanks great work on Typewriter Killer.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-05-2016
00:11 UT
|
~
James "jimmyjoejangles: Romanski wrote:
> Jackson "Grimmoer" Russell wrote:
>
> > I won't even go into what Scalzi did (shudder.)
>
> thanks for the warning I almost just bought the audiobook.
I
actually listened to the audiobook of ~Fuzzy Nation~. Like Jackson, I
didn't like the novel, mostly for two reason. First, Scalzi is _really_
rebooting this story. Someone reading it wouldn't recognize Jack
Holloway or Little Fuzzy or even what the Chartered Zarathustra Company
has become.
But more importantly, it fails specifically at what
Scalzi seems to have meant to do: update the early 1960s era novel for
contemporary readers. Or, perhaps more accurately, Scalzi was _too_
successful at accomplishing that end. By this I mean that in another
fifty years Scalzi's novel will seem every bit as "outdated" as Beam's
original seems now. He made no attempt to write future characters in a
genuinely future world. They are instead merely early 21st Century
Americans transplanted to some fantastically futuristic place. That's
what Beam was doing half a century ago. It seems an odd--and
pointless--choice. (In some sense, Beam's characters using language and
assumptions and cultural practices in the future which are
characteristic of late 1950s America seems more "original" _today_ than
does Scalzi's reboot.)
YMMV, of course.
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
~
|
|
Otherwhen@aol.com
09-04-2016
23:59 UT
|
"The Other Road" was Piper's title for "Crossroads of Destiny,"
published in the July 1959 issue of Fantastic Universe Science
Fiction, Vol. 11, No. 4, July 1959.
John Carr
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-04-2016
23:55 UT
|
Jackson "Grimmoer" Russell wrote:
> ...or, maybe that technology had yet to evolve on any timeline
> and they didn't have the chance to swipe it yet.
> The lamination process happens later in the THFH, after all.
I
doubt that's the case. Surely someone, somewhere on some Third Level
or Second Level timeline has figured out, over the past ten thousand or
so years, the same way to do it as some Fourth Level latecomers. . . .
I
think your general point is correct that the collapsed material used by
the Paratimers in "Temple Trouble" doesn't provide a connection to the
collapsium of the Terro-human Future History yarns.
> Let's shift away from collapsium to contragravity. THFH is
> contragravity crazy. Beer coolers are probably outfitted with it
> for ease of transport to the beach.
LOL!
> In Paratime they use antigrav. The old standby of SF writers
> everywhere. I would think Piper went with antigrav since it wasn't
> really plot intensive and hadn't come up with contragravity, yet.
> However, just for giggles, let's say this was an intended variation.
> Okay, they use different names for essentially the same thing.
> Counter gravity is counter gravity whether you call it anti-gravity,
> countragravity or feather-weight drive.
Actually,
there may be variations. I recall--the details escape me--a discussion
on the old PIPER-L list about the fact that contragravity seems to work
in a way that only nullifies the effect of gravity, which is different
from how antigravity vehicles work in, say, the role-playing game
~Traveller~. Beam's contragravity vehicles are more like Luke
Skywalker's landspeeder, they need some _other_ mechanism--usually
"jets" or "rockets" of some kind--to move the vehicle once it's "lifted"
into the air. Or, when a starship lands using contragravity on a
planet like Fenris, it needs contravity "tugs"--presumably again with
some other motive mechanism--to pull it down to the ground.
I
don't recall how the anti-gravity vehicles work in the Paratime yarns
but if they don't have "jets" of some sort to move them from one place
to another, then it _is_ different from "contragravity."
David
--
"THFH
is contragravity crazy. Beer coolers are probably outfitted with it
for ease of transport to the beach." - Jackson Russell, H. Beam Piper
Mailing List and Discussion Forum, September 4, 2016
|
|
jimmyjoejangles
09-04-2016
23:22 UT
|
so what about The Other Road? what is it where is it? He seems to have
got paid for it but I can't figure out what the name got changed to.
|
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Otherwhen@aol.com
09-04-2016
22:46 UT
|
Being the first one to read both "First Cycle" and "When in the
Course...", I can say that very few changes were made to "First Cycle"
by Michael Kurland, nor was it a first draft. It was written for
another one of the Twayne triplets that was never published because
the pervious books did not sell well enough to continue the project.
A
few years back, I saw the "final" (pre-publicaiton) ms. for "First
Cycle" at Penn State in their Special Collections. From what I could
see, Kurland made very few changes and/or additions to the original
manuscript. There were several problems with the book, in my opinion,
and I advised Ace Books not to publish it. Of course, they saw it as a
cash cow and published it anyway....
John Carr
Well,
First Cycle was a first draft that was completed (more or less) by
another author. That happens all the time in the industry and even
collaborations have one guy doing the first draft and the second,
usually more experienced, writer doing the expansion and clean-up.
As such, I would include it as canon. I would like to see another
write get the original draft and take a shot at it to see what would
be different.
Jackson
|
|
Grimmoer
09-04-2016
20:11 UT
|
Well, First Cycle was a first draft that was completed (more or less) by
another author. That happens all the time in the industry and even
collaborations have one guy doing the first draft and the second,
usually more experienced, writer doing the expansion and clean-up. As
such, I would include it as canon. I would like to see another write
get the original draft and take a shot at it to see what would be
different.
Jackson
|
|
jimmyjoejangles
09-04-2016
19:56 UT
|
"I won't even go into what Scalzi did (shudder.)" thanks for the warning I almost just bought the audiobook. I've only read the straight dope so far aside from first cycle I guess. but that might not count. Edited 09-04-2016 19:56
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Grimmoer
09-04-2016
19:46 UT
|
Actually, collapsium can be any metal that will survive the collapsing
process. In the Mercenaries the early collapsing experiments were done
on a bullet, presumably lead. Nickel and lead are both elemental
metals and I suspect an alloy would not work out well as the component
metals might collapse at different rates. Also, there are non-metallic
non-elemental components in some alloys to further destabilize the
process. Additionally, lead and nickel are fairly dense atoms, so a
lighter metal might not survive the process.
Okay, went off on a
tangent. Main point is: collapsed metal is collapsed metal whether it
is called collapsium, collapsed whatever or marshmelloium. A
noticeable difference between the nickel statue and 99% of collapsium
usage in the THFH is that the statue is described as being solid
collapsed metal, which would weight A LOT! tens of hundreds of tons, I
would think. In the THFH collapsium is typically a few microns thick
lamination on polysteel. Still heavy as all get-out, but slightly more
realistic in terms of weight management. This does not mean that 1st
Level doesn't use the same tuff, they just use it differently, possibly
because they have all of Paratime to pull resources from and feel
perfectly free to use those resources in a wasteful manner. Or, maybe
it was simply more expedient to collapse the entire structure than
shape it and laminate it, or...or, maybe that technology had yet to
evolve on any timeline and they didn't have the chance to swipe it yet.
The lamination process happens later in the THFH, after all.
Let's
shift away from collapsium to contragravity. THFH is contragravity
crazy. Beer coolers are probably outfitted with it for ease of
transport to the beach. In Paratime they use antigrav. The old
standby of SF writers everywhere. I would think Piper went with
antigrav since it wasn't really plot intensive and hadn't come up with
contragravity, yet. However, just for giggles, let's say this was an
intended variation. Okay, they use different names for essentially the
same thing. Counter gravity is counter gravity whether you call it
anti-gravity, countragravity or feather-weight drive. And to this I
say, so what? Russians would call it something different than Germans
and it would still be the same thing. It is silly to expect every
time-line to use the same terminology.
Whatever Piper had
intended no longer really matters, I am sad to say. It comes down to
what the reader wants to think and whatever the writers following in
his footsteps comes up with. Mike Robertson added armor to the Space
Vikings in his writings that I do not recall from the original. Diehr
added some medical stuff in his Fuzzy books. I won't even go into what
Scalzi did (shudder.) Sooner or later somebody may do their own story
where THFH meets Paratime. Maybe it will involve an elder Verkan Vall
taking a spaceflight on Fourth Level Everything Else Future Related
timeline. It might be fun for a three hundred and eighty year old Vall
visiting Freya and seeing the parallels between it and Fourth Level
Trans-Pacific Styphon's House Lord Kalvan subsector. Might be fun,
might be a disaster. That will be up to us to decide.
Jackson
|
|
jimmyjoejangles
09-04-2016
18:50 UT
|
but collapsium is collapsed nickel. So just because VErkan Vall doesn't
call it by it's brand name Collapsium (by Dow) doesn't mean it isn't
the same product. "Compare Collapsium to RIte Aid brand collapsed
nickel" of course that wouldn't be written on the idol but you follow my
meaning. Also the Maxwell's car was brand new never been used in
combat, I would assume a blaster or hell burner would leave some kind of
mark without destroying it. And that goes for the idol as well. the
guy who shot at it was expecting to vaporize it showing how weak the god
was, instead only a little paint was blistered off. A shiny patch
appearing on an idol after it was attacked would only make it look more
godlike.
|
|
David Sooby
09-04-2016
15:01 UT
|
jimmyjoejangles said:
"THere are only a few works that haven't
been put onto librivox Lord Kalvan, First Cycle and the last two Fuzzy
books most notably but I assume someone holds copyright for them."
Yes,
indeed. There was a concerted effort, by a team which included some
truly dedicated Piper fans, to get everything Piper wrote that is in
public domain into files published at Project Gutenberg. So far as I
know that work has been finished, even including some of Piper's more
obscure works such as "A Catalogue of Early Pennsylvania and other
Firearms and Edged Weapons..." and "Rebel Raiders," a fictionalized
account of a Civil War incident.
There is an excellent, detailed
bibliography at Zarthani.net, which hosts this very discussion forum; a
bibliography that includes links to Project Gutenberg:
http://www.zarthani.net/h_beam_piper_bibliography.htm
So
far as I can see, the only thing not available at Project Gutenberg,
other than those works still in copyright, is a two-part article on
"Precognition and a Theory of Time" published in /Amateur Spectator/,
which is described at the Zarthani site as a "pro-zine", but from the
cover has the appearance of being a product of amateur publishing.
~~~~~~~~~~~
David Sooby
|
|
David Sooby
09-04-2016
15:00 UT
|
"I agree it only takes a little tidbit to tie them together. that's why the collapsed nickel ties them together to me so well."
It's
too bad that (so far as I can see) "Temple Trouble", the only Paratime
story containing references to "collapsed nickel", never gives a
description of what the material looks like when the covering has been
blasted away. In THE COSMIC COMPUTER we're told that an Army aircar
is...
"...armored in dazzling, iridescent collapsium."
--Chapter VI
I'm tempted to suggest that of the descriptions of the idol in "Temple Trouble" is an indication that it's not collapsium:
"...the paint over the collapsed nicked was burned off, but otherwise the idol was undamaged."
Wouldn't an onlooker notice if there was suddenly a "dazzling, ididescent" patch on the side of the idol?
However,
that's arguing that "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence", which
may not always be a fallacy (Carl Sagan nothwithstanding), but it is at
best a weak argument to be used cautiously.
If the appearance of
collapsed nickel had been described, then we would have a better idea
if Piper meant the reader to think the two were the same. But Pider
didn't. However, since he used different terms to describe collapsed
matter in Paratime vs. THFH, I am of the opinion that Piper did not
intend to suggest they are exactly the same thing, any more than the
"antigravity" also mentioned in "Temple Trouble" indicates a connection
with the "contragravity" of the THFH.
The connection there, is that the same author used similar ideas in different stories. Just as other authors did and do.
|
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jimmyjoejangles
09-03-2016
18:47 UT
|
about ten years ago someone gave me like six boxes of old sci fi books. I
sorted through and gave away a bunch until I was down to one box of
interesting names and covers but no authors that I had read. Well I
listen to a lot of talk radio (coasttocoast) and somehow stumbled across
a librivox recording of graveyard of dreams. Cool an interesting new
author H. Beam Piper so I go back to the last box of to find Uller
Uprising Cosmic Computer and Federation waiting for me. I've been
hooked ever since and actually listen to the librivox recordings all the
time. so if my spelling is completely off on names and other things its
because I have read them all at least once but listened to most dozens
of times. THere are only a few works that haven't been put onto
librivox Lord Kalvan, First Cycle and the last two Fuzzy books most
notably but I assume someone holds copyright for them. I would gladly
buy the audiobooks of these missing works. Librivox is connected to
Project Gutenberg and does tons of audio recordings of public domain
works. If you can handle audiobooks (I didn't think I would be able to)
you should check out librivox.org
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-03-2016
17:27 UT
|
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> I was looking on amazon and ebay for the nice little H beam
> Piper box set, and there were a few kindle versions of
> different piper works that claimed to be annotated.
> couldn't find out by whom. does anybody know anything
> about these?
Since
most of Beam's work passed into the public domain there have been
plenty of eBook reprints of his work showing up. Some of it's better
than others. I've not seen any that do more than repackage what's
already available for free at Project Gutenberg.
Wildside and
AEgypan were first-to-market with many print-on-demand works and I've
found them to be of good quality if you're old fashioned and want to
turn pages when you're reading (though some of their editorial choices
have been . . . unusual). I've reviewed several of them (along with
many of John's Piper sequels) here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1EI1093WQNLCY
Let us know what you think if you end up buying something you've come across.
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-03-2016
17:14 UT
|
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> Also as an aside I never got the feeling that the paratimers
> were stealing what they got from other timelines. In
> Typewriter KIller there is an article and it talks about how
> the Paratimers were stealing resources from other timelines
> and enslaving them.
>
> But I know they were against slavery and I seem to remember
> that they were paying for the goods they took.
In
"Time Crime," Karf and Vall are making the case to Dalla for
interrupting their holiday plans so Vall can investigate the cross-time
slave-trading operation. Vall explicitly says their concern is not a
moral one. Dalla, agreeing, muses to herself, "For over twelve
millennia, the people of her race and Vall's and Tortha Karf's had been
existing as parasites on all the innumerable other worlds of alternate
probability on the lateral dimension of time. Smart parasites never
injure their hosts, and try never to reveal their existence."
They
don't object to the slavery _per_se_; what they object to is
"para-exporting" the slaves to other timelines--because that might cause
the "Paratime Secret" to be revealed.
In "Police Operation" both the Dakota Badlands and the Gobi Desert are mentioned as remnants of Paratimer exploitation.
It
seem pretty clear that the Paratimers are not only "stealing" from
other timelines, but that doing so has become the basis of the First
Level economy. (There is an analogy here to the Sword Worlds of Trask's
time, making their living by stealing from others who are less
powerful.)
David
--
"Oh, my people had many gods. There
was Conformity, and Authority, and Expense Account, and Opinion. And
there was Status, whose symbols were many, and who rode in the great
chariot Cadillac, which was almost a god itself. And there was
Atom-bomb, the dread destroyer, who would some day come to end the
world. None were very good gods, and I worshiped none of them.” -
Calvin Morrison (H. Beam Piper), ~Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen~
|
|
jimmyjoejangles
09-03-2016
04:32 UT
|
and as far as Dearest the more I think about it it kind of fits right in
with the mentality of LAst ENemy. But its a story that could also fit
into the past of THF.
Also as an aside I never got the feeling
that the paratimers were stealing what they got from other timelines.
In Typewriter KIller there is an article and it talks about how the
Paratimers were stealing resources from other timelines and enslaving
them. But I know they were against slavery and I seem to remember that
they were paying for the goods they took.
but wait there is more I
was looking on amazon and ebay for the nice little H beam Piper box
set, and there were a few kindle versions of different piper works that
claimed to be annotated. couldn't find out by whom. does anybody know
anything about these?
|
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jimmyjoejangles
09-03-2016
04:16 UT
|
I agree it only takes a little tidbit to tie them together. that's why
the collapsed nickel ties them together to me so well. If not to THF
then at least to the Mercenaries and Time and AGain. but again I have
to say that the Mercenaries and Time and Again could easily have taken
place in the "present" of the future history.
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David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-03-2016
03:10 UT
|
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> But Travis Foxx mentions that Miles Gilbert got educated on a
> Paula Von SChlyton(That can't be spelled correctly)Scholarship.
Ah, yes, that's a good one! Paula and her Freyan grandmother and all. . . .
It's
tidbits like this that leave me believing that if Beam intended for the
Terro-human Future History yarns to be part of Paratime he would have
dropped a straightforward item like this telling us so _somewhere_.
David
--
"Do
you know which books to study, and which ones not to bother with? Or
which ones to read first, so that what you read in the others will be
comprehensible to you? That's what they'll give you [at university].
The tools, which you don't have now, for educating yourself." - Bish
Ware (H. Beam Piper), ~Four-Day Planet~
|
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David Sooby
09-03-2016
03:05 UT
|
Agreed, the term "Terro-human" does not point to any recognition of
humanity's Martian origin. As David Johnson rightly points out, the
passage in LITTLE FUZZY which mentions a Martian language inscription in
a cave on Earth, which is dismissed as a hoax, is an indisputable
indication that the public at large did not believe humans originated on
Mars.
And the following phrase is found in ULLER UPRISING:
"Freya, where the people were human to the last degree and the women
were so breathtakingly beautiful..."
The phrase "Martian-human"
(or "Areo-human") is nowhere to be found in Piper's writings. However,
that does not, to my mind, indicate that Piper intended his readers to
dismiss the strong implications of a Martian connection in "Omnilingual"
and "Genesis". Yes, the citizens of the Federation believe Humans are
not related to Martians. That doesn't mean that Piper wanted us
*readers* to believe they are not, nor does it indicate Piper wanted us
readers to believe that the so-called "Terro-human" species didn't
originate on Mars.
|
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jimmyjoejangles
09-02-2016
03:02 UT
|
well its not much. But Travis Foxx mentions that Miles Gilbert got
educated on a Paula Von SChlyton(That can't be spelled
correctly)Scholarship.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-02-2016
02:56 UT
|
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote: wrote:
> Besides doesn't the fact that they called themselves Terro-Humans
>imply that they knew that there was at least one more human type
> to differentiate from?
The term "Terro-human" doesn't show up until the Viking era, well after "Freyo-humans" had been encountered.
David
--
"Why,
here on Odin there hadn't been an election in the past six centuries
that hadn't been utterly fraudulent. Nobody voted except the nonworkers,
whose votes were bought and sold wholesale, by gangster bosses to
pressure groups, and no decent person would be caught within a hundred
yards of a polling place on an election day." - Emperor Paul XXII (H.
Beam Piper), "Ministry of Disturbance"
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-02-2016
02:48 UT
|
James "jimmyjoejangles" Romanski wrote:
> Benjamin Bathurst did exist and did disappear
> in reality, here, on our timeline, so Paratime
> is about us. THF is a projection of our future.
> so that means its all happening in one universe.
> a bit simplistic perhaps but nature follows the
> easiest path and so do I.
Welcome, James.
I
totally get it, but it does beg the question why Beam didn't do as he
did with "Police Operation" and "Horses," and put a little tidbit in a
yarn like "Gunpowder God" or "Down Styphon!" about ~Kilroy~ or the
Eastern Axis or the Communist take-over in India or something. . . .
And
I'm also left wondering why Beam never mentioned that it was all
Paratime in "The Future History." I mean, he admitted that he'd stopped
writing near-future yarns after ~Sputnik~ there. It seems like just
the sort of "inside baseball" that article was meant to illicit.
> My favorite little secret connection is Ooomphel in the Sky to Uller Uprising.
Do tell!
David
--
"You
either went on to the inevitable catastrophe, or you realized, in time,
that nuclear armament and nationalism cannot exist together on the same
planet, and it is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of
knowledge." - H. Beam Piper, ~Uller Uprising~
|
|
jimmyjoejangles
09-02-2016
02:35 UT
|
"It would seem that if Terro-humans were actually Martio-humans
none of the Terro-humans ever came to recognize this fact."
THe Martio-humans died off by the end of the story, after only a few had interbred with the wild men on earth.
Besides
doesn't the fact that they called themselves Terro-Humans imply that
they knew that there was at least one more human type to differentiate
from?
|
|
jimmyjoejangles
09-02-2016
02:34 UT
|
My name is James Romanski, my web handle is jimmyjoejangles.
Everyone
seems to be forgetting the entire point of Verkan Vall and the Paratime
police force is to enforce the Secret of paratime. Meaning that no one
but Paratimers know they even exist. So looking for clues of the
connection in THF would be obviously fruitless.
Benjamin Bathurst did
exist and did disappear in reality, here, on our timeline, so Paratime
is about us. THF is a projection of our future. so that means its all
happening in one universe. a bit simplistic perhaps but nature follows
the easiest path and so do I.
My favorite little secret connection is Ooomphel in the Sky to Uller Uprising.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-02-2016
00:42 UT
|
Jonathan Crocker wrote:
> At that size it's hard to see for sure, but if
> he's wearing a uniform collar, he could be one
> of the officers from the ship.
Ah,
good idea! Enlarging the image (also at Gutenberg here:
www.gutenberg.org/files/19445/19445-h/images/010.png) it's tough to see
anything on the collar but he does have an epaulet with an insignia on
it. The resolution is very poor but I suppose it could be "the single
star of a major on his shoulder" mentioned in the description of
Fitzgerald. (That's Beam with his Confederate rank insignia!)
Perhaps Fitzgerald just has very short red hair. . . .
Thanks!
David
--
"Let's see yours. Draw--soul! Inspection--soul!" - Foxx Travis (H. Beam Piper), "Oomphel in the Sky"
|
|
Jonathan Crocker
09-02-2016
00:13 UT
|
Is it just me, or does he look like Abe Vigoda? See, they didn't kill
Tessio in the Godfather, he went where it was safe for him. Mars.
At
that size it's hard to see for sure, but if he's wearing a uniform
collar, he could be one of the officers from the ship. I had a quick
flip-though, didn't catch a reference to a bald man.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-01-2016
14:27 UT
|
Mike "pennausamike" McGuirk wrote:
> I think it is supposed to be Selim Von Olmhurst
> (Guess from memory) the older, established
> archeologist.
Naw,
I don't believe it's him. The mustachioed Von Ohlmhurst is shown in
Freas' wonderful cover illustration, and in another internal
illustration here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19445/19445-h/images/034.png
(In both instances I believe the other man is Penrose.)
David
--
"Let's see yours. Draw--soul! Inspection--soul!" - Foxx Travis (H. Beam Piper), "Oomphel in the Sky"
|
|
pennausamike
09-01-2016
05:29 UT
|
I think it is supposed to be Selim Von Olmhurst (Guess from memory) the older, established archeologist.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-01-2016
05:21 UT
|
This
is one of Kelly Freas' illustrations from the original publication of
"Omnilingual" in ~Astounding~. Anyone have an idea who the man is? I
thought it was Ivan Fitzgerald, the medic, who helps Sachiko Koremitsu
putting together pages from the books they've found. But Fitzgerald is
described in the story as having red hair. Red or otherwise, this guy
doesn't have any. Could it be Captain Field, the intelligence officer,
whom Penrose says has helped Dane from time to time?
Other ideas?
David
--
"Lord Kalvan is a Martian." - Jackson Russell, H. Beam Piper Mailing List and Discussion Forum, July 6, 2015
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-01-2016
04:54 UT
|
Jonathan Crocker wrote:
> I think for some of the stories he had an idea of what he
> wanted to try - a dash of paratime, a pinch of TFH, throw in
> a bit of historical allusion, bake until done and serve.
Agreed.
Mostly, he was trying to make money selling his yarns. If an idea
worked in more than one place that was just providence--or gravy.
> Both "When In The Course" and "Graveyard of Dreams" are short
> story versions of the longer novels, so obviously he felt they
> needed more work to better fulfill his hopes for them.
Actually,
I think money was at work here too. "When in the Course--" didn't sell
and, as John tells us, was reworked into the beginning of ~Lord Kalvan~
(on the advice of his editor) which did sell.
Something similar
likely happened with "Graveyard of Dreams." It seems pretty clear from
"Graveyard" that there was no "Brain," but then Beam--or else someone he
knew--wondered what would happen if there _were_ a "Brain" . . . and
Merlin was born (along with ~Junkyard Planet~, which sold for a great
deal).
Down Styphon!
David
--
"Why Walt Disney
bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never figured out.
Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General Phil Sheridan
by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to get the check."
-- H. Beam Piper, ~The Pennsy~ interview, 1953
|
|
Jonathan Crocker
09-01-2016
01:37 UT
|
I doubt that we'll ever be able to nail them into place on the timeline.
I think for some of the stories he had an idea of what he wanted to
try - a dash of paratime, a pinch of TFH, throw in a bit of historical
allusion, bake until done and serve. Both "When In The Course" and
"Graveyard of Dreams" are short story versions of the longer novels, so
obviously he felt they needed more work to better fulfill his hopes for
them.
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 09-01-2016
00:19 UT
|
"jimmyjoejangles" wrote:
> I think its pretty reasonable to assume that what Piper wrote
> could fit into a timeleine of something else he wrote.
[Let
me again invite you to introduce yourself. Imagine us here all sitting
around a table at the Waffle House on Atherton Street in State College.
. . .]
Would you assume that "Dearest" or "Flight from
Tomorrow" or ~Null-ABC~ are Paratime yarns too? If not, what makes a
yarn like "Naudsonce" or "Oomphel in the Sky" or ~Space Viking~ a better
candidate?
I've found it difficult to find specific evidence
connecting the Terro-human Future History yarns to the Paratime yarns.
Others here have already suggested it's also difficult to explain Beam's
failure to draw any specific connections, given his explicit choices to
connect a Paratime yarn like "Police Operation" to "He Walked Around
the Horses" and a Terro-human Future History yarn like "Naudsonce" to
"Omnilingual."
And then there are his comments about which yarns are Terro-human Future History yarns in "The Future History."
Again, looking forward to your introduction.
David
--
"I
remember, when I was just a kid, about a hundred and fifty years ago--a
hundred and thirty-nine, to be exact--I picked up a fellow on the
Fourth Level, just about where you're operating, and dragged him a
couple of hundred parayears. I went back to find him and return him to
his own time-line, but before I could locate him, he'd been arrested by
the local authorities as a suspicious character, and got himself shot
trying to escape. I felt badly about that. . . ." - Tortha Karf (H. Beam
Piper), "Police Operation"
|
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jimmyjoejangles
09-01-2016
00:16 UT
|
"Yes, it's possible to assume that the Terro-human Future History yarns
are all merely one Paratime timeline but without any specific connection
one can assume that for just about _any_ fictional story. The ~Star
Wars~ yarns could be a Paratime timeline. Star Trek's "Mirror universe"
could be a Paratime timeline. ~Cowboy Beebop~ could happen on a Paratime
timeline. It's the nature of "alternate timeline" storytelling."
I
think its pretty reasonable to assume that what Piper wrote could fit
into a timeleine of something else he wrote. Less reasonable to say any
of those other things have anything to do with Paratime because Piper
had nothing to do with them.
Having said that I do think there are obvious Piper influences in Star Wars, maybe even blatant rip offs.
Surprised by the Bebop reference but shouldn't have been.
|
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Jonathan Crocker
08-29-2016
17:40 UT
|
Ah, thanks - obviously time to read Little Fuzzy again!
|
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