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Jackson Russell
12-31-2010
23:57 UT
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Hey! Who U callin a zombie? I got military grade protection here!
Zombie! Hmph!
braaaiiins...
Jack
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr  12-31-2010
22:46 UT
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I believe that this thing is a viral spambot that infests your computer,
and then sends trash out to the internet. Something similar can steal
your e-mail ID and then use it even after you've rooted the virus out.
It sends the data to where it came from. I know this because I keep
getting spammed from one of my Yahoo contacts, who's scrubbed her
computer and changed her account.
I know it isn't going through
mine because I follow tight security procedures, check my logs, use a
dialup connection, and the times are wrong, "but what about all you
zombies?"
Check your computers, folks. It found this site somehow.
|
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David Johnson
12-31-2010
16:25 UT
|
~
Jack,
> Who is this Pharmf guy with multiple e-dresses that keeps
> spamming us?
A
robot, most likely. I can delete the posts from the forum and ban
them afterwards but obviously it's figured a way around that by using
the multiple IP addresses.
Again, let me urge everyone reading
this to "Subscribe" using the button the on the discussion archive
page (there should be a link in this message). We may soon move to
subscription-only to avoid the spamming.
If you have
difficulties subscribing--or are not sure if you're already
subscribed--drop me a note off-list at "piperfan (at)
zarthani (dot) net" and I'll help you sort it out.
Thanks,
David
--
"[Computers]
can't imagine, they can't create, and they can't do anything a human
brain can't." - Conn Maxwell (H. Beam Piper),
"Graveyard of Dreams"
~
|
|
Jackson Russell
12-31-2010
16:00 UT
|
Who is this Pharmf guy with multiple e-dresses that keeps spamming us?
Jack
< replied-to message removed by QT >
|
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Messages 781-779 deleted by author 12-31-2010 10:14 AM |
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MMoeser237@aol.com
12-29-2010
23:16 UT
|
Hello David -- I'd like to contribute, but I don't paypal. Alternatives? Mark
In a message dated 12/27/2010 12:07:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, qtopic-42-tnfVKeAH3s4T@quicktopic.com writes:
Please
considering making a donation, in any amount, to support this
resource for the Piper fan community by using the PayPal link
at the top of the discussion forum page:
|
|
|
Spam deleted by QuickTopic 10-28-2012 07:16
|
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David Johnson
12-25-2010
07:20 UT
|
~
David "Lensman" Sooby wrote:
> It has been pointed out
> that human activity does influence weather
> patterns. Drain a swamp *here*, it decreases humidity *there*.
Indeed,
Beam himself portrays these sorts of impacts on Zarathustra.
(Different setting/universe, I realize, but it's clear he recognized
this sort of thing.)
> It seems
> to me this is somewhat related to a trend in the THFH series
> much discussed on the two fan forums, regarding stories which
> seem to point to a rise of a new local or regional galactic
> civilization even while the old galactic civilization was
> crumbling: /The Cosmic Computer/ and /The Space Viking/. As
> has been pointed out, stories set in later eras make no mention
> of these new civilizations, so we must assume they failed to
> live up to their early promises. This suggests to me that Piper
> assumed a large amount of historical inevitability; call it fate
> or destiny, if you wish.
I think Beam was just a pessimist when it comes to human
civilization.
Call it "historical entropy." (It also seems he enjoyed this sort
of hook: ending a yarn on a hopeful note, then jumping ahead some
years to a point where those hopes have been lost in the past.)
> This is not to suggest that the THFH series is one timeline in
> Paratime. It *is* to suggest that because they had the same
> author, we can find similar themes in both series.
I agree with Lensman. ;)
>> or that Fifth Level has many timelines while no intelligence
>> worth mentioning exists there?
>
>
> More specifically: No intelligence worth mentioning exists or
> ever existed on *earth*. I'm pretty sure it's stated in the
> stories that those are the result of various decisions and
> actions by Martians which lead to no human colonization of
> Earth. Apparently it was most likely that the Martians died
> out, leaving no descendants, and the colonization of Earth was
> a low-probability event.
Or
even more specifically, no "Martio-human" intelligence exists on
Earth _within_ the "range" of Fifth Level timelines explored by the
Paratimers. Because they begin with the premise that civilization on
Earth results from colonization from Mars their reach across Fifth
Level is going to focus on those timelines where that possibility
existed. Indeed, the Paratimers are exploiters not explorers and so
they really have no need to venture across Fifth Level farther than
they need to collect resources, develop vacation spots, and place
cross-time work areas. It may be that the Paratimers have only ever
visited a minority of all Fifth Level timelines. . . .
(I think
we also have a continuity problem in that Beam seemed to be backing
away from the Martian origins of First Level civilization in later
Paratime yarns. . . .)
David
--
"It would be natural for me to supply details for the future.
But
. . . a lot of this stuff is based on unpredictable and arbitrary
factors that can't be inferred from anything in the present." - Edward
Chalmers (H. Beam Piper), "The Edge of the Knife"
~
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David Johnson
12-25-2010
07:04 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> I do however note that if you
> cruised far enough beyond described Fifth Level,sooner or later
> the earth mass, lunar mass, solar mass, lunar distance, solar
> distance, etc., would diverge from our local observed values.
Perhaps
so, but the really interesting thing about Fifth Level is that long
before you got to the timelines where the differences were on a
geological--or astronomical!--scale there might be some pretty
interesting differences on an evolutionary scale (like those
mentioned in the "Theropod" discussion a while back).
David
--
"You know any kind of observation that doesn't contaminate the thing observed, professor?" - Tortha Karf (H. Beam Piper),
_Lord_Kalvan_of_Otherwhen_
~
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Lensman
12-25-2010
04:39 UT
|
On 12/24/2010 9:21 PM, QT - Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> what about the scene where Vall is watching the trees move
> around randomly between timelines,
Two possibilities:
One:
The different placement of trees was a result of human activity. Frex
trees have been planted all throughout the Midwest in America, where
they never grew before. Even in old growth forests, logging would
affect exactly where trees grow.
Two: My own personal fan theory
is that we must assume a certain amount of low-level variation between
the different inhabited timelines. Think of it as a version of quantum
uncertainty writ on the macro scale. It has been pointed out that
human activity does influence weather
patterns. Drain a swamp
*here*, it decreases humidity *there*. It is said that overgrazing
exacerbated the spread of the Sahara... altho recently it's been
suggested human influence may have been exaggerated, and that the
desertification was primarily due to natural climate change.
But as I
said in my previous post, we must assume there is some force, some
factor which, over time, slowly but inexorably damps out the differences
between closely adjacent timelines over time. Or in the case of the
weather, not slowly at all, but rather rapidly!**
(Presumably this
force weakens over distance across Paratime, so that more distant
timelines can be more different.) It seems to me this is somewhat
related to a trend in the THFH series much discussed on the two fan
forums, regarding stories which seem to point to a rise of a new local
or regional galactic civilization even while the old galactic
civilization was crumbling: /The Cosmic Computer/ and /The Space
Viking/. As has been pointed out, stories set in later eras make no
mention of these new civilizations, so we must assume they failed to
live up to their early promises. This suggests to me that Piper assumed
a large amount of historical inevitability; call it fate or destiny, if
you wish. Local variances, no matter how promising, get damped out
over time by the tide of historical inevitability.
Even in /Lord
Kalvan of Otherwhen/, note it is stated that the House of Styphon is
inevitably doomed to fall. Kalvan's actions merely cause it to fall
somewhat earlier on one timeline.
This is not to suggest that the
THFH series is one timeline in Paratime. It *is* to suggest that
because they had the same author, we can find similar themes in both
series.
> or that Fifth Level has many timelines while no intelligence worth
> mentioning exists there?
More
specifically: No intelligence worth mentioning exists or ever existed
on *earth*. I'm pretty sure it's stated in the stories that those are
the result of various decisions and actions by Martians which lead to
no human colonization of Earth. Apparently it was most likely that the
Martians died out, leaving no descendants, and the colonization of
Earth was a low-probability event. Earth exists on all the timelines
which have a Mars-- or at least, all those explored by Paratimers. But
since Earth was not colonized on most of those timelines, there is no
influence of intelligent activity on the myriad Earths, hence they are
all exactly the same. An explorer would find the same situation if he
visited Jupiter or Venus on those timelines: They would all be exactly
alike.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
**Perhaps our
understanding of Chaos theory is all wrong. Perhaps what we see as
"islands of stability" in probability are situations where local
conditions prevail-- that is, conditions existing only on an individual
timeline are the primary factors of cause and effect-- but in other
situations or areas of probability, areas where theory says chaos
reins, perhaps this is an indication that cross-timeline similarity
prevails. If so, then even the name "Chaos theory" is completely
wrong-- it's exactly backwards. We only *see* it as chaos-- complete
randomness-- because we can only see one timeline, and thus can't see
the influence of the nearly infinite number of other timelines.
I
only just thought of this, but I rather like it. It would explain why
weather is the same across Paratime-- if weather is particularly
influenced by what *we* see as random chance, the "strange attractors"
of Chaos theory, then that means in actuality it's particularly
influenced
by crosstime similarity, which would explain why weather is the same
from one end of (explored) Paratime to the other. This fan theory
needs a name, though. The opposite of Chaos-- perhaps the Iron Law of
Crosstime Similarity?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clear ether!
Lensman
Visit the Incompleat Known Space Concordance at:
http://www.freewebs.com/knownspace/
|
Jim "Rhino" Sparr 12-25-2010
03:21 UT
|
Okay, but what about the scene where Vall is watching the trees move
around randomly between timelines, or that Fifth Level has many
timelines while no intelligence worth mentioning exists there?
Does
anyone know if Beam was aware of Everett's many-worlds formulation of
quantum mechanics? I think Campbell referred to it in /Astounding/.
That could have some bearing here.
|
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Lensman
12-24-2010
16:02 UT
|
On 12/23/2010 10:24 PM, QT - Jim Broshot wrote:
> Query: would the eclipse prediction tables for the present time
> line work on the other time lines? Like Paratimers could use
> them to intimidate the natives?
Yes.
Continents are the same, and-- according to one story-- even the
weather patterns are the same from one end of Paratime to the other.
This indicates all purely natural forces result in the same outcome on
all timelines. Apparently only decisions made by intelligent life
result in different timelines. And probably even then, only a very
small number of decisions actually result in divergence. (This is best
explained if we assume there is some force damping the divergence
between timelines close to each other; some factor or force must be
working to counteract the natural tendency toward exponentially
increasing divergence over time, as predicted by Chaos theory.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clear ether!
Lensman
Visit the Incompleat Known Space Concordance at:
http://www.freewebs.com/knownspace/
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 12-24-2010
05:25 UT
|
Jim, I've been meditating on my last response and want to modify it
slightly. Yes, the eclipse tables should work on any timeline Piper
wrote about. I do however note that if you cruised far enough beyond
described Fifth Level,sooner or later the earth mass, lunar mass, solar
mass, lunar distance, solar distance, etc., would diverge from our local
observed values. The tables would fail in such a universe.
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 12-24-2010
04:48 UT
|
Yes, barring some effect we Fourth Level critters don't yet know about,
Solar System orbital mechanics should be the same on all of the
timelines.
BTW, "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night".
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Spam deleted by QuickTopic 10-28-2012 07:16
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 12-24-2010
04:02 UT
|
What my LX10, Fuji S1 and I did on the solstice. Enjoy.
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Jon
12-23-2010
18:19 UT
|
Oh I knew that it wasn't a Christmas song, but I figured that was as close as I'd get to a Christmassy reference with Piper!
Unless
they mentioned the winter solstice holiday in Temple Trouble, and I
don't think good wishes from a crocadile-rabbit-chicken-whatever hybrid
was really appropriate. "Happy Holidays and watch out for the sharp
teeth!!" seemed a bit of a surreal stretch...
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David Johnson
12-23-2010
16:58 UT
|
~
Jim "Rhino" Sparr wrote:
> Jon, your sentiments are appreciated, but I believe that the
> "barbarian chant" was intended to mean. . . .
Hey, a Fourth Level barbarian chant is a Fourth Level barbarian chant . . . and the sentiment is much appreciated. :)
Merry Solstice (a cross-time holiday!),
David
--
"Our rulers are the barbarians among us. There isn't one of
them
. . . who is devoted to civilization or anything else outside
himself, and that's the mark of the barbarian." - Otto Harkaman (H.
Beam Piper), _Space_Viking_
~
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 12-23-2010
16:29 UT
|
Jon, your sentiments are appreciated, but I believe that the "barbarian
chant" was intended to mean "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow", rather than
"Auld Lang Syne", as the occasion being celebrated was Tortha's
retirement and Verkan's promotion. Its occurring on Year End Day (NOT
New Year's)was incidental.
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Jon
12-23-2010
16:09 UT
|
Merry Christas & a Happy New Year to all!
"...and then they'd break into that Fourth Level barbarian chant they used on these occasions." - Lord Kalvan, last chapter
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David Johnson
12-20-2010
00:18 UT
|
~
"Rebel Raider" original on eBay
The original publication of
Beam's historical fiction yarn, "Rebel Raider," published in the
December 1950 issue of ~True~ magazine is available on eBay (at a
reasonable price):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310274051810
Good luck!
David
--
"[T]here was a bimbo just made to be leered at, and she probably resented it like hell if she weren't." - H. Beam Piper,
_Murder_in_the_Gunroom_
~
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Messages 762-761 deleted by author 12-16-2010 12:53 AM |
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David Johnson
12-10-2010
16:03 UT
|
~
Apologies for the unwelcome messages from the Piper List this
morning.
I've blocked those users but the messages came from four different
IP addresses so we may see some more. If that continues I may have to
limit posting only to registered subscribers. If you've not
subscribed already please consider doing so now. If you're not sure
how to do that contact me off-line at piperfan (at) zarthani (dot)
net.
David
--
"[Computers] can't imagine, they can't
create, and they can't do anything a human brain can't." - Conn
Maxwell (H. Beam Piper),
"Graveyard of Dreams"
~
|
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Spam messages 759-755 deleted by QuickTopic between 12-10-2010 10:56 AM and 01-24-2014 01:09 AM |
|
Lensman
11-28-2010
20:28 UT
|
On 11/28/2010 2:14 PM, QT - Tom Rogers wrote:
> The problem with text communication (like this
> list) is that much meaningful nuance is lost
Yeah, that's the problem. But no harm, no foul. Or as Miss Emily Litella said: "Nevermind!"
And thanks for your reply.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clear ether!
Lensman
Visit the Incompleat Known Space Concordance at:
http://www.freewebs.com/knownspace/
|
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