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John Carr
04-26-2010
20:15 UT
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IRREGULARS MUSTER
The 2010 Irregulars Muster will be on May
22nd. We will be meeting at the State College Waffle Shop on Atherton
at 11:00am. Join us as we open a bag of talk, as Beam would say, on
Piper and Piper related events and geography.
We intend
to make a stop at Fairview Cemetery to view the new headstone and visit a
few other Piper-related spots in Altoona. We look forward to seeing
you there.
John F. Carr and Dennis Frank
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David Johnson
04-21-2010
04:33 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> The only use of veridication in _Space Viking_ is:
>
[snip]
>
> during the Battle for Marduk at the end of the book. One of
> Makann's captured stormtroopers is being interrogated while
> Trask and Bentink's people are searching for King Mikhayl VIII
> of Marduk, as well as for Makann and Dunnan.
[snip]
> The veridicator might even have been obtained on Marduk.
> The book gives us no data on Sword world legal procedures, but
> they would probably have been rather straightforward.
Well,
we might make assumptions about Sword Worls legal procedures but
other than a penchant for dueling we really don't know. What we have
is Beam portraying his characters on one cultural milieu--
Trask's Vikings-cum-civilized-world-groundfighters--using
veridication technology in one manner and those in a different
cultural
milieu--folks on Federation-era Zarathustra--using it in a different
manner. That's the data we have from canon; anything else is
supposition.
Beam's portrayal of the use of veridication
technology in different ways in different cultural milieux suggests
that his primary purpose was not a commentary on his contemporary
society but rather the demands of his fictional ends. Beam was a
storyteller after all, not a social critic (at least in his published
writing).
> I get the impression that Space Vikings on a raid did not take
> time for niceties like veridication, but would have resorted to
> the more basic techniques as given in Kipling's poem "Loot" if
> they wanted information.
As
I mentioned before, Beam shows his Empire-era Imperial troopers doing
this on Aditya in "A Slave is a Slave." One supposes this is a
tactic the Mardukans and Odinites learned from the Space Vikings they
fought off to forge the Empire, but Trask's Vikings likely didn't act
this way.
The Emperor Speaks!
David
--
"Our rulers are the barbarians among us. There isn't one of
them
. . . who is devoted to civilization or anything else outside
himself, and that's the mark of the barbarian." - Otto Harkaman (H.
Beam Piper), _Space_Viking_
~
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr  04-19-2010
04:59 UT
|
The only use of veridication in _Space Viking_ is:
""You know what this is, don't you?" one of them was saying. "This is
a veridicator. That globe'll light blue; the moment you try to lie
to us, it'll turn red. And the moment it turns red, I'm going to
hammer your teeth down your throat with the butt of this pistol.""
during
the Battle for Marduk at the end of the book. One of Makann's captured
stormtroopers is being interrogated while Trask and Bentink's people
are searching for King Mikhayl VIII of Marduk, as well as for Makann and
Dunnan. Note that Trask is no longer a Space Viking at this point, but
is Prince (soon to be King) of Tanith, and counts as the sovereign of a
civilized world. The veridicator might even have been obtained on
Marduk. The book gives us no data on Sword world legal procedures, but
they would probably have been rather straightforward.
I get the
impression that Space Vikings on a raid did not take time for niceties
like veridication, but would have resorted to the more basic techniques
as given in Kipling's poem "Loot" if they wanted information.
|
Jon Crocker 04-11-2010
04:57 UT
|
>Understood. My point was merely that in the Federation era
cultural >milieu of the Fuzzy novels, Beam portrayed the use of
verification >technology within a constraining context of social and
legal norms. On >the other hand, in the more barbaric Viking era, he
has Trask's men >strapping prisoners into a veridicator and
threatening them with violence >if the globe turns red in response to
their interrogations. Same >technology but used differently in
different cultural milieus. That >suggests to me a rather
sophisticated understanding of
>technology on Beam's part.
>David
Oh, I agree. [I thought it was more of a promise of violence than a threat, but that's a bit of hair-splitting!]
Of
course, should Jack Halloway have found someone he strongly suspected
of stealing sunstones from his flint works, I could see him doing
something similar. Between "You could find a precedent for almost
anything in colonial law," and, "he'd been skirting the edge of it for
30 years" and the reaction from the dispatch officer at the Red Hill
Post, "Yeah, peace-loving Jack Halloway, that's him."
And then
you have to make the obvious allowances for getting a good story out of
the situation, else it's forty pages of setup and two pages of
resolution, and no editor buys it, and we're not discussing it forty or
fifty years later! But that's a very 'meta' solution I suppose.
Jon
|
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David Johnson
04-11-2010
02:47 UT
|
~
Jon Crocker wrote:
> To be fair, the circumstances didn't really give a chance for
> veridication to be a plot element in Viking
Understood.
My point was merely that in the Federation era cultural milieu of
the Fuzzy novels, Beam portrayed the use of verification technology
within a constraining context of social and legal norms. On the other
hand, in the more barbaric Viking era, he has Trask's men strapping
prisoners into a veridicator and threatening them with violence if the
globe turns red in response to their interrogations. Same technology
but used differently in different cultural milieus. That suggests to
me a rather sophisticated understanding of
technology on Beam's part.
Yeek!
David
--
"I hope I've made the point, without over-making it, that the
proletariat aren't good and virtuous, only stupid, weak and
incompetent." - H. Beam Piper (on "A Slave is a Slave")
~
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David Johnson
04-11-2010
02:40 UT
|
~
Jack Russell wrote:
> Not so. The only witnesses against Thaxter were the Fuzzies,
Okay,
okay, whatever the details in this case (the Fuzzy novels are not my
favorite yarns either) you see my point. In any criminal conspiracy, a
prosecutor armed with a veridicator would cut a deal with one of the
conspirators and then have them testify against their former
co-conspirators in such detail that a conviction would be virtually
assured.
That makes for easier prosecution but perhaps less interesting
courtroom drama, hence Beam's need to resort to a contrivance for his plot.
> However, the veridicator is far from
> perfect. A nut-job who believed he was God would be proven
> correct by the veridicator.
Of course. Jon's already made this point with the example of General Dorflay.
The Emperor speaks!
David
--
"Why not everybody make friend, have fun, make help, be good?" - Diamond Grego (H. Beam Piper), _Fuzzy_Sapiens_
~
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Jack Russell
04-11-2010
00:37 UT
|
Not so. The only witnesses against Thaxter were the Fuzzies, who had to
be proven to tell lies in order to test the veridicator on them.
However, the veridicator is far from perfect. A nut-job who believed
he was God would be proven correct by the veridicator. And people are
capable of deluding themselves about something they have seen. Believe
it or not, there have been cases tossed because there were too many
eye-witnesses to a crime. You can get two or three people to agree on
the same thing that thay saw, but not fifty.
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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David Johnson
04-10-2010
23:32 UT
|
~
Jack Russell wrote:
> "Leo Thaxter, did you or did you not enslave a group of Fuzzies
> to rob the CZC gem vault?"
>
> "No, I did not."
>
> Blue globe turns red.
Actually, this points to the contrived manner of Beam's plots in all of the Fuzzy yarns:
"Conrad Evins, did Leo Thaxther enslave a group of Fuzzies and rob the CZC gem vault?"
"Yes, he did."
Globe stays blue.
In
an uncontrived situation, the prosecution would have cut a deal with
one of the plotters to get him (or her) to turn evidence against the
others. This is the true power of verdication technology in the
courtroom. But, of course, given the simplistic moral demands of
Beam's plot, such practicalities never even occur to the prosecution.
Yeek!
David
--
"Naturally.
Foxx Travis would expect a soul to be carried in a holster." - Miles
Gilbert (H. Beam Piper), "Oomphel in the Sky"
~
|
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Jack Russell
04-10-2010
20:49 UT
|
I should point out that the addition of the veridicator doesn't
eliminate the adversarial process. It only elliminates perjury. You
can't veridicate a person unless they testify, and I don't recall any
change in colonial law that forced a defendant to testify against his
will. In modern courtrooms the lawyer will often keep his client off
the stand. If they couldn't, where would the drama be?
"Leo Thaxter, did you or did you not enslave a group of Fuzzies to rob the CZC gem vault?"
"No, I did not."
Blue globe turns red.
"Liar!"
Case closed.
Nope, you have to hear everybody elses testemony and go from there.
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Jon Crocker 04-10-2010
19:25 UT
|
> David
>
> P.S. It seems veridication technology does not survive into the
> Empire era, perhaps because it's too "civilized." Lanze
> Degbrend, for example, resorts to a much more ruthless form of
> truth-gathering on Aditya than Trask's veridicator-wielding
> Vikings-cum-princely- groundfighters practiced on Marduk. . . .
To
be fair, the circumstances didn't really give a chance for veridication
to be a plot element in Viking or even Ministry of Disturbance - they
weren't courtroom drama.
If anyone had put General Dorflay on
the veridicator, he would have sworn that someone really was trying to
weave threads of Strontium-90 into the upholstery of the Audience
Throne, and the globe would have stayed nice and blue...
Of
course, had Minister Travann been compelled to testify, the Emperor's
whole scheme would have unravelled, and more importantly, it would have
spoilled the big reveal at the end.
Jon
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Jack Russell
04-10-2010
15:46 UT
|
No, it was definately a Fuzzy book. It had Coombes, Grego and Holloway.
There were some pieces posted to the list for critique, I think.
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
|
|
|
Spam deleted by QuickTopic 10-28-2012 07:16
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David Johnson
04-10-2010
01:24 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> Anybody think that after fleeing Zarthustra, Ingermann might
> have helped found the original colony on Aditya? It seems
> genetically possible, lots of mutelid traits there.
Nah,
I think the problems we see on Aditya in "Slave" are accounted for by
the degenerated Viking settlement there. It was probably a fairly
decent place before the Vikings arrived. . . .
Here's what Beam had to say (at the end of _Other_People_) about where Ingermann might end up:
"What
he'll do, as soon as he lands on Terra he'll take another ship out
for somewhere else. . . . He'll get to some planet like
Xipototec or Fenris or Ithavoll or Lugaluru and dig in there, and nobody'll ever find him."
The
interesting thing about this observation isn't so much what it says
about where Ingermann might finally run to ground but rather the
suggestion that, despite Walt Boyd's hopes of a few centuries
earlier, Fenris never did manage to become a more refined world.
Monster Ho!
David
--
"We
talk glibly about ten to the hundredth power, but emotionally we
still count, 'One, Two, Three, Many.'" - Otto Harkaman (H. Beam
Piper), _Space_Viking_
~
|
Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-10-2010
01:06 UT
|
Anybody think that after fleeing Zarthustra, Ingermann might have
helped found the original colony on Aditya? It seems genetically
possible, lots of mutelid traits there.
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-09-2010
22:42 UT
|
Thanks, Jack, for that contribution. Beam could have based him on a
former brother-in-law of mine. "Further deponent sayeth not....".
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Jack Russell
04-09-2010
22:20 UT
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Hugo Ingermann was the epitome of the slimy ambulance chaser/mob lawyer.
He never met a client he wouldn't defend...for a price. This is when
he wasn't doing his level best to avoid becoming his own client
through his own manipulations of the law. His final stunt before
skipping planet was defending four Fuzzy slavers and buying up land to
open his own space port where he could do even more damage. When he
skipped planet he took 250,000 sols worth of stolen Sunstones with him.
If he ever shows his face on Zarathustra again, the best he can hope
for is a bullet in the back of the head.
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
21:55 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> I believe that Beam was subtly commenting that perhaps having
> testimony veridicated might improve the process.
Hmm, seeing as he managed to squeeze at least three novels out of courtroom drama that hardly seems the case!
I
think Beam had a more nuanced view of the impact of veridication
technology, particularly given the example of the starkly different
way it is used by the Space Vikings. He seemed to recognize that the
effect of a given technology has as much to do with the social milieu
in which it is deployed as with the specific capabilities of the
technology itself.
The Emperor speaks!
David
P.S.
It seems veridication technology does not survive into the Empire era,
perhaps because it's too "civilized." Lanze Degbrend, for example,
resorts to a much more ruthless form of truth-gathering on Aditya than
Trask's veridicator-wielding Vikings-cum-princely- groundfighters
practiced on Marduk. . . .
--
"Why, here on Odin there hadn't been
an election in the past six centuries that hadn't been utterly
fraudulent. Nobody voted except the nonworkers, whose votes were
bought and sold wholesale, by
gangster bosses to pressure groups,
and no decent person would be caught within a hundred yards of a
polling place on an election day." - Emperor Paul XXII (H. Beam
Piper), "Ministry of Disturbance"
~
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-09-2010
19:25 UT
|
I believe that Beam was subtly commenting that perhaps having testimony
veridicated might improve the process. Can you imagine the Simpson
trial, or maybe that circus with the Kennedys in Palm Beach, if the
witnesses had been veridicated....or many a liability trial, for that
matter. They'd have to either expand the prisons or make perjury a
Class C misdemeanor.
What Jim says about the Missouri Statutes is
also true of Vernon's Texas and the Florida Statutes, from my
experience. There oughta be a law against gratuitous legislation,
perhaps.
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
19:10 UT
|
~
Jim Broshot wrote:
> Who is Ingermann?
Satan! You really didn't care for the Fuzzy yarns, did you? :)
Honestly,
you haven't missed much. Ingerman is the villain in Beam's second
and third Fuzzy novels, an attorney who first defends the miscreants
who have created a ring of slave-Fuzzy robbers and then who seeks to
subvert the constitutional convention process in an effort to profit
in the land grab that will come with greater Terro- Human immigration
in the aftermath of the Company's loss of its monopoly on Zarathustra.
Yeek!
David
--
"You
either went on to the inevitable catastrophe, or you realized, in
time, that nuclear armament and nationalism cannot exist together on
the same planet, and it is easier to banish a habit of thought than a
piece of knowledge." - H. Beam Piper, _Uller_Uprising_
~
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
19:05 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> Piper's views were balanced, I'll grant, but he also had the
> court process modified from ours by hooking the witness chair to
> a lie detector, making the proceedings a search for truth rather
> than a purely adversarial process.
Actually,
I thought Beam did an excellent job of showing that, even with a
"truth-telling device," there was still need for an
adversarial legal process. He also subtly showed that any
technologicial
capability can be mediated by social norms, such as the prohibitions
against the authorities strapping anyone--like Ingerman--into the
veridicator for any reason. It was Beam writing science-fiction at
its best.
> I detect a deeper social
> comment here.
Care to elaborate?
Yeek!
David
--
"Naturally.
Foxx Travis would expect a soul to be carried in a holster." - Miles
Gilbert (H. Beam Piper), "Oomphel in the Sky"
~
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Jim Broshot
04-09-2010
18:56 UT
|
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 12:26 PM, QT - Jim Rhino
<qtopic-42-tnfVKeAH3s4T@quicktopic.com> wrote:
> My apologies to our learned and honorable colleague, Dr Broshot.
> &#A0;I'm sure he's a combination of Gus Brannhard and Atticus Finch,
> rather than a result of hybridization among the Mustelidae.
> From half a century of observing elected officials and officers
> of the court, however, Ingermann is closer to the mark for quite
> a few of the ladies and gentlemen, unfortunately, but I can't
> tell the war stories here. &#A0;Note that my comment was meant as
> humor.
No apology necessary, my comment was meant to be a little bit
humorous. Although, I confess that I do get a bit tired of the
practice of blaming lawyers for everything, like the mess with
copyright law.
I have 30+ years of observation myself, so I won't tell any war stories either.
Who is Ingermann?
> Piper's views were balanced, I'll grant, but he also had the
> court process modified from ours by hooking the witness chair to
> a lie detector, making the proceedings a search for truth rather
> than a purely adversarial process. &#A0;I detect a deeper social
> comment here.
I
daresay Beam would have had an interesting comment on the modern day
propensity of society to demand a law to cover every situation, ie
"There ought to be a law".
An example, when I started in this
racket in 1975, the laws of the State of Missouri, codified as the
Revised Statutes of Missouri, was contained in 5 volumes (the fifth
being the index), the latest version is contained 20 volumes not
counting the 5 soft-bound supplements (the index now covers four
volumes).
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-09-2010
18:26 UT
|
My apologies to our learned and honorable colleague, Dr Broshot. I'm
sure he's a combination of Gus Brannhard and Atticus Finch, rather than a
result of hybridization among the Mustelidae. From half a century of
observing elected officials and officers of the court, however,
Ingermann is closer to the mark for quite a few of the ladies and
gentlemen, unfortunately, but I can't tell the war stories here. Note
that my comment was meant as humor.
Piper's views were balanced,
I'll grant, but he also had the court process modified from ours by
hooking the witness chair to a lie detector, making the proceedings a
search for truth rather than a purely adversarial process. I detect a
deeper social comment here.
Some of those Fuzzy illustrations are vile!
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Gordon Johansen
04-09-2010
16:40 UT
|
That Swiss picture is going to give me nightmares, My 9 year old could draw a better picture than that.
The German one is at least funny with the huge land prawn.
Gord
Gordon Johansen (Owner)
The Sentry Box (Canada's largest adventure gaming store)
1835-10th Avenue. S.W., Calgary, AB T3C 0K2
403-245-2121
www.sentrybox.com
|
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
15:19 UT
|
~
Jim Broshot wrote:
> As previously noted, the Fuzzy books aren't my favorite Piper
> works.
> I will have dig out COSMIC COMPUTER....
The most prominent attorney in _Computer_, of course, is Judge
Ledue.
He's sort of a doddering old fool but that's more, I think, because
he's _old_, not because he's a member of the bar. And then there's
Morgan Gatworth, who at Conn's urging helps to clean up Litchfield,
once Kurt Fawzi and the core of his "gang" had decamped to Force
Command Duplicate. Again, hardly a character portrayed disdainfully.
Remember Ashmodai! Remember Belphegor!
David
--
"I hope I've made the point, without over-making it, that the
proletariat aren't good and virtuous, only stupid, weak and
incompetent." - H. Beam Piper (on "A Slave is a Slave")
~
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
15:16 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> Having had a few in the family, I'm entitled. Remember the
> crooked Junktown lawyer in the Fuzzy books?
There
are several lawyers in the Fuzzy novels but for every Ingerman
there's a Gus Branhard. Mohammed Ali O'Brien, the colony's original
Attorney General, is crooked (because he's been "bought" by the
Company) but then he's replaced (with Branhard) by another attorney,
Chief Justice Frederic Pendarvis. Then, of course, there's Leslie
Coombs, the Company's chief counsel, who starts out crooked but, like
Victor Grego is rehabilitated in the second and subsequent novels.
One
can hardly, I think, make the case that Beam held a generally
negative view of attorneys, on the basis of his portrayals of them in
his work.
Yeek!
David
--
"Our rulers are the barbarians among us. There isn't one of
them
. . . who is devoted to civilization or anything else outside
himself, and that's the mark of the barbarian." - Otto Harkaman (H.
Beam Piper), _Space_Viking_
~
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Jack Russell
04-09-2010
14:48 UT
|
Oh, you mean Hugo Ingermann! Fine example of weasel/skunk cross-breeding.
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Jack Russell
04-09-2010
14:47 UT
|
R U sure that wasn't in the Tuning book?
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Spam deleted by QuickTopic 10-28-2012 07:16
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-09-2010
06:27 UT
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Having had a few in the family, I'm entitled. Remember the crooked Junktown lawyer in the Fuzzy books?
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Jim Broshot
04-09-2010
06:22 UT
|
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 10:47 PM, QT - Jim Rhino
<qtopic-42-tnfVKeAH3s4T@quicktopic.com> wrote:
> Anyone who read the books would have to get it right, as, if I
> recall right, fuzzy footprints are described early on. &#A0;BTW, I
> once used an argument based on shared plantigrade locomotion (as
> well as shared behavior) to "prove" that politicians, lawyers,
> etc., &#A0;evolved from possums by way of skunks and wolverines.
> Twain or Piper would have likely approved.
I always enjoy gratuitous insults to lawyers, pray tell where in the Piper canon, Beam engages in such activity?
Perhaps in COSMIC COMPUTER?
Jim Broshot
|
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
05:04 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> Anyone who read the books would have to get it right, as, if I
> recall right, fuzzy footprints are described early on.
We can't really tell what sort of footprints the Germans:
http://www.zarthani.net/Images/littlefu79german.jpg
or the Swiss:
http://www.zarthani.net/Images/littlefu76Sw.jpg
had in mind.
Yeek!
David
--
"At
the time of his death, H. Beam Piper was writing at the top of his
form and certainly with the best of his contemporaries." - John. F.
Carr, Introduction to _Empire_
~
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-09-2010
04:47 UT
|
Anyone who read the books would have to get it right, as, if I recall
right, fuzzy footprints are described early on. BTW, I once used an
argument based on shared plantigrade locomotion (as well as shared
behavior) to "prove" that politicians, lawyers, etc., evolved from
possums by way of skunks and wolverines. Twain or Piper would have
likely approved.
|
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
04:19 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> Granted, David, that's pretty unattractive, but it lacks the
> raptorial prehensile clawed toes shown on Scalzi's cover. That
> may be suited to a gargoyle or an arboreal hunter, but NOT to a
> plantigrade like humans or fuzzies.
Well, it would seem the British:
http://www.zarthani.net/Images/littlefu77.jpg
and the French got that part right at least:
http://users.info.unicaen.fr/~fournier/masqueSF/cover/LMSF064.jpg
Yeek!
David
--
"Naturally.
Foxx Travis would expect a soul to be carried in a holster." - Miles
Gilbert (H. Beam Piper), "Oomphel in the Sky"
~
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David Johnson
04-09-2010
04:17 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> So why not "reboot" Paratime. If this be blasphemy make the
> most of it!
I
think the discussion we had a while back about a possible "Sixth
Level" of Paratime (timelines "beyond" the Fifth Level) where as
species of theropod-descended sapients have developed paratemporal
transposition technologies would be a "reboot" of sorts.
Yeek!
David
--
"[Computers]
can't imagine, they can't create, and they can't do anything a human
brain can't." - Conn Maxwell (H. Beam Piper),
"Graveyard of Dreams"
~
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-09-2010
03:57 UT
|
Granted, David, that's pretty unattractive, but it lacks the raptorial
prehensile clawed toes shown on Scalzi's cover. That may be suited to a
gargoyle or an arboreal hunter, but NOT to a plantigrade like humans or
fuzzies. Also, the legs are totally wrong for plantigrade locomotion,
and what are those hornlike hair tufts about?
|
David "PiperFan" Johnson 04-08-2010
22:07 UT
|
~
Jim Rhino Sparr wrote:
> I'll be looking for Fuzzy Nation, but the cover illustration
> looks to me more like something you'd find spitting water off
> the roof of Notre Dame de Paris than chasing land prawns on
> Zarathustra.
Oh, come now. It's much better than Little Fuzzy's original incarnation:
http://www.zarthani.net/Images/littlefu62.jpg
Yeek!
David
--
"You
know, it's never a mistake to take a second look at anything that
everybody believes." - Rodney Maxwell (H. Beam Piper), "Graveyard of
Dreams"
~
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David Johnson
04-08-2010
14:02 UT
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Jack Russell wrote:
> I meant how the Fuzzy book was coming along.
[snip]
> I
> remember one of the members of the Piper-L was working on the
> Fuzzy book, then the Piper-L went POOF.
That's news to me. Anyone else recall such an effort?
> Was Scalzi a member of
> the Piper-L?
I don't believe so. If he was, he was a lurker (or posted under a pseudonym).
Yeek!
David
--
"You know any kind of observation that doesn't contaminate the thing observed, professor?" - Tortha Karf (H. Beam Piper),
_Lord_Kalvan_of_Otherwhen_
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Jack Russell
04-08-2010
13:32 UT
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I agree. Whelan's version is the diffinative one.
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-08-2010
05:58 UT
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I'll be looking for Fuzzy Nation, but the cover illustration looks to me
more like something you'd find spitting water off the roof of Notre
Dame de Paris than chasing land prawns on Zarathustra.
"Do the Lathians have the Willies?" Leeming to his Zangastan guards in Eric Frank Russell's The Space Willies
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Jack Russell
04-08-2010
04:45 UT
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I meant how the Fuzzy book was coming along. I have the bio and all the
books except Fireseed Wars (on the to-do list). I remember one of the
members of the Piper-L was working on the Fuzzy book, then the Piper-L
went POOF. Was Scalzi a member of the Piper-L?
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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David Johnson
04-08-2010
04:38 UT
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Jack Russell wrote:
> I heard somebody was trying to write a 4th book in the series
> (or 5th or 6th...I don't know how he is working around the
> Tuning and Mayhar books.) This might stomp on his plot-line.
Perhaps this was actually Scalzi himself? I've not heard of someone else working on a(nother) Fuzzy sequel. . . .
> Was it John F. Carr? He's been doing the Lord Kalvan books and
> the Piper bio. Anybody have any idea how that is coming along?
John's Piper bio has been available for nearly two years now:
http://www.mcfarlandpub.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-3375-9
And
his latest Kalvan sequel, _The_Fireseed_Wars_, was recently released.
You can find it under the "Shop" link at hostigos.com.
Down Styphon!
David
--
"Why
Walt Disney bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never
figured out. Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General
Phil Sheridan by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to
get the check." - H. Beam Piper
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Lensman
04-08-2010
04:01 UT
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QT - Jack Russell wrote:
> BLASPHEME!!!
LOL! I
*thought* would be the first or second response. Well, I'll reserve
judgment until I actually read the book in question.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clear ether!
Lensman
Visit the Incompleat Known Space Concordance at:
http://www.freewebs.com/knownspace/
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Jack Russell
04-08-2010
00:44 UT
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I heard somebody was trying to write a 4th book in the series (or 5th or
6th...I don't know how he is working around the Tuning and Mayhar
books.) This might stomp on his plot-line. Was it John F. Carr? He's
been doing the Lord Kalvan books and the Piper bio. Anybody have any
idea how that is coming along?
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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David Johnson
04-08-2010
00:40 UT
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Jim Broshot wrote:
> Why not "reboot" "Space Viking" or the universe of "Space
> Viking"?
> And after the mention of blasphemy, I will risk pariah status or
> worse by stating that "Little Fuzzy" is not my favorite Piper
> story.
Hah!
_Fuzzy_ isn't my favorite yarn either. The odd thing though is that
my first reaction to your suggestion of a Viking "reboot" is:
"BLASPHEME!" ;)
Yeek,
David
--
"Heinlein can do what he likes. I prefer to keep my heroine
_virgo_intacto_ until the end." - H. Beam Piper
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David Johnson
04-08-2010
00:33 UT
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Jack Russell wrote:
> BLASPHEME!!!
I have to
respectfully disagree. Surely this work will be no worse that some of
what Beam himself wrote. (Consider _Null-ABC_, for example.) On the
other hand, it might be quite good.
In my mind, anything that
introduces Beam to new folks--the comments on Scalzi's post
demonstrate this has already happened--is a "good thing," particularly
if someone ends up _making_money_ by doing so. It can only help to
keep Beam's original work in print--something that is more difficult
now that so much of it has fallen into the public domain.
Besides, I can't help believing Beam would think blasphemy in general was a "good thing." ;)
Yeek!
David
--
"Good things in the long run are often tough while they're
happening." - Otto Harkaman (H. Beam Piper), _Space_Viking_
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David Johnson
04-08-2010
00:27 UT
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Oops! Here's the link to the Fuzzy Nation cover montage:
http://picasaweb.google.com/jeffzugale/FuzzyNationBookCover#
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David Johnson
04-08-2010
00:23 UT
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Gilmoure wrote:
> John Scalzi has posted today that he's written a re-boot of
> Little Fuzzy. I like his writing (very Heinlein-esque) so hoping
> this may be a good read. Even beyond that, he's drawing a lot of
> attention to Piper on his blog so there may be a wave of new
> readers coming along. Cool!
Yes,
this is wonderful news! Love the way he's already introduced new
folks to Beam\s yarns. Looking forward to buying and reading the
published novel.
Scalzi even had a cover illustration commissioned:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4500539786_ffbb1c2a82_o.jpg
And the artist has posted a montage of its creation:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4500539786_ffbb1c2a82_o.jpg
Yeek!
David
--
"Why
Walt Disney bought the movie rights to ['Rebel Raider'], I've never
figured out. Will Colonel Mosby be played by Mickey Mouse, and General
Phil Sheridan by Donald Duck? It's baffling. However, I was glad to
get the check." - H. Beam Piper
~
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Jim "Rhino" Sparr 04-08-2010
00:18 UT
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So why not "reboot" Paratime. If this be blasphemy make the most of it!
"Take him outside and shoot him."-- Star, Empress of the Twenty Universes, in Heinlein's Glory Road
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Gilmoure
04-07-2010
23:24 UT
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I'll admit I don't re-read Fuzzy as often as Cosmic, Space Viking, and the short story collections (Thanks John!).
After
thinking over all different the re-boots of Star Trek and Battlestar
Galactica have been, I'll admit I'm really curious just how far afield
Scalzi's taken it. I suppose we could treat this as an alternate Time
Line story...
Gilmoure
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:08 PM, QT - Jim Broshot <
qtopic-42-tnfVKeAH3s4T@quicktopic.com> wrote:
>
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Spam deleted by QuickTopic 10-28-2012 07:16
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Jack Russell
04-07-2010
21:57 UT
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BLASPHEME!!!
Jack Russell
"People shouldn't be shot for committing crimes. They should be shot for being the kind of people who commit them."
H Beam Piper - "Fuzzy Sapiens"
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Gordon Johansen
04-07-2010
21:37 UT
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That is some great news. Scalzi's "Old Man's War" was a great story.
After reading the first 30 pages in paperback, I went out and bought the
hardcover of it and the two sequels in HC as well.
It will be fascinating to see what he does with it.
Gord
Gordon Johansen (Owner)
The Sentry Box (Canada's largest adventure gaming store)
1835-10th Avenue. S.W., Calgary, AB T3C 0K2
403-245-2121
www.sentrybox.com
----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "QT - Gilmoure" <qtopic-42-tnfVKeAH3s4T@quicktopic.com>
To: qtopic-subs@quicktopic.com
Received: 4/7/2010 2:28:47 PM
Subject: Zarthani.net's H. Beam Piper List
< replied-to message removed by QT >
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Gilmoure
04-07-2010
21:28 UT
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John Scalzi has posted today that he's written a re-boot of Little
Fuzzy. I like his writing (very Heinlein-esque) so hoping this may be a
good read. Even beyond that, he's drawing a lot of attention to Piper on
his blog so there may be a wave of new readers coming along. Cool!
Gilmoure
whatever.scalzi.com/
"So,
that Super Secret Thing That I Cannot Tell You About? I can tell you
about it now. It’s a novel, and it’s called Fuzzy Nation, and it’s a
reboot of the Hugo-nominated 1962 science fiction novel Little Fuzzy, by
H. Beam Piper.
And now, your questions:
Uh, “reboot”? Don’t you mean a sequel?
Nope,
I mean a reboot, as in, I took the original plot and characters of
Little Fuzzy and wrote an entirely new story from and with them. The
novel doesn’t follow on from the events of Little Fuzzy; it’s a new
interpretation of that first story and a break from the continuity that
H. Beam Piper established in Little Fuzzy and its sequels.
Why did you do this?
Because
as far as I know it’s never been done before. Science fiction TV and
movie series are rebooted all the time — see Battlestar Galactica and
Star Trek for recent examples of this — but I can’t think of a
significant, original universe in science fiction literature in which
this has been done, at least, not by someone who is not the original
author. So I thought, hey, this seems like it could be a fun thing to
do. So I did it.
Why Little Fuzzy?
Because I am a huge fan
of the original novel and of H. Beam Piper’s work. It’s a good story
and he’s a very good story teller; Little Fuzzy wasn’t nominated for a
Hugo on accident, you know. And while the original novel is still, as
they say, a “cracking good tale,” I thought there was an opportunity to
revisit the story and put a new spin on it to make it approachable to
people who had not read the original or did not know about Piper, and
also to give fans of the original the fun of seeing some old friends in
new settings.
While Fuzzy Nation is a “reboot” of Little Fuzzy,
the idea behind it is not to replace the original, but to celebrate it
and hopefully draw new readers to it and to other work by Piper. I hope
that when people get done with Fuzzy Nation they’ll pick up Little
Fuzzy, and compare and contrast the two approaches to the same story."
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